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Odin

Butchers v Morticians tactics

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Well, after winning every game against Fishermen last week, the butchers have lost every game against Morticians this week.  Any tips?   Ideally I prefer not to take any Union players, but I'd consider it.

 

My main problem seems to be that they can control the game.  I need to get into a fight, but when I try and force it they end up getting the charge and causing more damage on me than I can cause back.  Cosset is horrific, able to dish out horrendous amounts of damage with a threat range of 11", and heal herself back up with some of the momentum she generates.  Obulous just throws my team all over the pitch and any time I try to charge him he dodges out of range.  Even when things start going my way I get all my momentum stolen.

 

I think the first thing is I need to have Shank (he's the one butcher I don't have thanks to a miscast model, still waiting for a replacement).  He's got an incredible threat range.  Using Brisket as bait to draw a player into range, dodging out when they get close and then attacking with another player?  But then Obulous can draw her way out of position to be ganged up on.

 

I think the key is to take Obulous down.  But that's easier said than done when I can't catch him.

 

Edit... looks like Gutter and Minx might be the best Union options to help get the drop on them.  Shame, as I love th model for Rage but he seems redundant in the Butchers team.

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Obulous is tough to pin down. Remember unpredictable movement only triggers off of advances. If you can dodge, push or use a play to get near him it wont trigger. 

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Ah, so I could move Shank up to within 6" of Obulous, then use his dodge play to get up close and hurt him?  No charge bonus, but still better than nothing.  Especially combined with someone else's play to reduce his ARM or DEF, or having Ox nearby.

 

If SHank knocks him down, he can still use his dodge to get away from the next one of my players though, can't he?  That's annoying.

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With Shank, you can move in base to base with him. Even if he dodges, you are "touching" the 2" circle so you are in range either way (that has been officially ruled that way). Any model with a 2" range can actually reach him that way. So Boar and Shank.

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What about jogging or sprinting Princess into his engagement range first therefore forcing him to use Unpredictable movement against something that is actually no threat. Then just charge away with everyone else?

Or Gutter can push him into her melee with her character play (I forget what it's called now).

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What about jogging or sprinting Princess into his engagement range first therefore forcing him to use Unpredictable movement against something that is actually no threat. Then just charge away with everyone else? .

Using 'Unpredictable Movement' is optional, so this would not work.

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It doesn't always work but I've found it effective to line him up with a "fake" charge, or even just to move him out of the way. I know it sounds like a cop-out I but find it's just easier to deal with Obulous by ignoring him. Take out Silence, Cosset and Graves (no huge task for us Butchers :P) and you're half way there.

 

On the other hand my regular Spooks opponent is getting better every time we play. They really are tricksy. Had some great passing action today. Decimate to Shank, Shank to Brisket, Brisket to...Obulous :o Damn you!

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Using 'Unpredictable Movement' is optional, so this would not work.

Blast! Missed that small "may" word.

Going on that then maybe get as many 2" melee players as you can. Boar, Shank, Decimate and Gutter. It'll be very hard to stay away from all of them and both Decimate and Gutter can still kick pretty well so the options to score a goal is still there.

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Played them today. Mist was in their team and I just couldn't stop him from scoring. Obulous was making him jog into better positions then he just swooped in, like a scalpel, tackled the ball, dodged away and shot. Then they took out poor princess. I had planned to heal him but saved the MP for counter attackes and defensive stance, but boy that was a big mistake as Obulous used his legendry play and stole all my MP and left me flat footed in that respect. Cosset then took down shank (she puts out a lot of damage!) and that was that.

First time I have played them but it has left me scratching my head with how to, firstly, counter Mist (as this guy usually has him in his team) and secondly, how to not get picked off by Obulous and Cosset with their luring shenanigans.

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Well, I have my first full game today (last one was just first to 8 points), against the Morticians again.  A few tricks up my sleeve this time.  No Shank, I'm still waiting for a replacement for my miscast pre-order model.  That was always going to be a handicap.

 

I used Boiler as bait, passing the ball back to (or rather near!) Ox, using his Swift Stance to get a Defence of 5+.  Obulous did his nasty trick of puppet mastering Boiler into a position where the entire Morticians team could charge him, and no Butchers could counter-charge them in return.  But his Defence of 5+ was good enough to prevent much damage, then I used Ox to give him +1 armour as well, and despite almost the entire Morticians team charging him, Boiler only took a single wound.  Meanwhile I'd set up most of my team for a second turn charge.

 

By this time Meathook had the ball behind a ring of Butchers, but of course Obulous persuaded her to pass the ball to him.  Damn, I hate that guy.  Fortunately he'd got overconfident, and I managed to charge him with Boar.  Carnage ensued.  He had to sacrifice Dirge to prevent Ox from finishing the job on Obulous (I made sure to spend my last Momentum points first of course!).

 

By turn three it was a bit of a mid-field scrap, and that was only going to favour one side.  Brisket scored (she's got a great threat range) and Obulous was clinging onto life after Meathook moved into a position where his dodge move could only take him closer to Ox and Boar.

 

Got to say, Silence is also proving a terror, with the fire/poison effect of his embalming fluid really draining my Momentum.

 

Anyway, long story short, I managed to win the game, satisfyingly scoring my last two points by taking Obulous out.

 

Key tips from this game:

  • Using players as bait can be a good way to draw your opponents out, if you buff them with extra defence and armour to protect them.  Brisket is probably best for this, as she's already DEF 5+ against male players, and has her 2" dodge.
  • Watch your spacing when Silence is nearby.  Bunch up at your peril - that's particularly problematic for Butchers.
  • Charge Cossett before she can charge you!  She is the ultimate glass cannon.
  • Boiler can't kick.
  • You can trap a player like Obulous by moving within 30mm of one of his nearby teammates who has already moved, but not within 1" - this can severely limit the directions he can dodge, without giving yourself any penalties.
  • Dirty Knives is pretty great against Obulous, as he can't dodge them!  Especially if he's already moved so it takes 2 Momentum to heal him.

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Im a bit curious about Boiler not being able to kick or was it just bad dice.

 

I like the use of Swift Stance and Tough Hide. It also gets funny on Brisket.

 

But nice how you used all the Butchers Dirty tricks to get the win.

 

Also did you find that playing to 12VP gave Butchers a stronger chance of winning?

 

Personally i find they operate best at 6VP and 12VP games.

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Well, Boiler only has a 2/6" kick.  It's not completely terrible, but the difference between 2 dice and 3 is pretty significant.

 

I definitely think Butchers benefit from the full size game.  They are often best off ignoring the ball at first in order to get stuck in, which you can't do as easily if a single goal plus one taken out will win the game.

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[..]  and despite almost the entire Morticians team charging him, Boiler only took a single wound.  Meanwhile I'd set up most of my team for a second turn charge.

 

 

That seems a bit incredible :blink:  A big piece of luck.

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My advice:

 

Send someone forward for cosset to beat up.

 

Then smash her into the ground. she has NO protections and will be KOed in a couple of hits.

 

If she respawns. Chase her down again. Farm her for VP because she has 3hp.

 

Make sure you take a swing at the bird if it comes too. More free VP.

 

Morticians only have casket in the "hard to take down" camp. You can absoloutely fight them. Fuel up a couple of people and go in greedy and deep. You can utterly outfight them.

 

The other thing, is to never hold the ball. Drop it on the floor every activation. So obulus can't make you pass it. You can play keep away really well like that.

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Wow! Great idea to deal with Obulous jswiers! While I do seem to do well against my buddy's Spooks (haven't lost yet ;)), the one problem I have is that very thing. Stop passing to the other team! :angry:

 

Consider that idea well and truly stolen (you'll get props for my next win though) ;)

 

Right about Cosset. My mate hates it when she gets her free charge only to be destroyed in return. :P

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So I played a couple of games using butchers vs. Morticians today. (I normally play as them.)

I can throw another idea into the pot now:

 

It is *ALL* about Ox. He will wreck anyone on the enemy team (except obulus who he can't touch.)

 

If they can keep him out of play, you lose. If you can get him to enemy models. You win.

 

The issue is getting past silence, and obulus's control methods. Knocking him down at the end of a turn, then making him go first is *so* powerful. Making him walk into the middle of nowhere once he's gone is also very strong.

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My advice:

 

Send someone forward for cosset to beat up.

 

Then smash her into the ground. she has NO protections and will be KOed in a couple of hits.

 

If she respawns. Chase her down again. Farm her for VP because she has 3hp.

 

Make sure you take a swing at the bird if it comes too. More free VP.

 

Morticians only have casket in the "hard to take down" camp. You can absoloutely fight them. Fuel up a couple of people and go in greedy and deep. You can utterly outfight them.

 

The other thing, is to never hold the ball. Drop it on the floor every activation. So obulus can't make you pass it. You can play keep away really well like that.

 

Ghast is pretty damn hard to take down as well, as it takes an extra Influence for the first attack on him per turn.  So Boar actually cannot attack him at all unless he can charge him, and it's basically only worth attacking him if you are really going to make a lot of attacks on him in that turn.

 

I will try the drop-the-ball tactic though, sounds like a good one.

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My experience against morticians makes me think that baiting out those pesky plays is the key.

There are two good ways of doing this that I've found.
1. Set someone up to get attacked, brisket is ideal but boiler works well too, stick her out front and swift stance and/or tough skin on them. against males that makes her 6+ Def with 2 Armour, that is very tanky.
2.Always set up kill threat from at least 2 Butchers, they then have a difficult choice to make. 

As an example of number 2, I always field Boar against morticians, sure they can control him easily, but people know how much kill threat Boar has so they focus a lot of Resources on Boar to keep him away as much as possible. But while they focus on him I have Boiler and Ox set up to kill 2 other players. Both of them hit as hard as Boar does if you let them get into position.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Also Ox's Legendary play is a complete game changer. I try to use this as early as possible, so as soon as I have 2-3 hard hitters in position I pop the legendary. I feel this is key with the Butchers. I feel it is better to use it early and get a couple of kills early than to save it until every Butcher is in range late in the game.
The reason for that is even just one player taken out early snowballs the Butchers to victory. As soon as you outnumber the opponents team, you can start ganging up on players with ease. Then if they bring their players back on right away, you have easy VPs to farm.

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As a Mortician player, Butchers are amongst the hardest match up. As long as you can get into combat as a group, there should be no problem d fearing the Morticians.

Key plays a Mort player will use are to keep Ox and Boar away from the main scrum and hope to isolate players to take them out one by one.

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Just played my first 3V3 and full game, both against the Morticians.  2-6 loss in 3v3, 12-4 win in the subsequent 6v6(both teams were sans union).  Playing with just the starter boxes in 3v3 felt very uphill with 2 fairly fragile players and no reach against Obulus and his unpredictable movement.  With the addition of Boar, Tenderizer and Princess the team played much more effectively for me.  Is this a common complaint for the starter box, or is this just more due to our lack of experience with the system than anything else?  We both come from a few years of steady Warmachine, so I felt like the rules were pretty straight forward but I am sure we are missing subtle interactions.

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My main issue is that the morts I play stay bunched up so cant be lured out and if they were theyd use there control to stop me exploiting-Ive even had to start trying to score (I mean if he wont leave the scrum then may as well :P
What I need is to find how to smash open there block-they have so much crowding out that i cant really make a dent and the turn swapping means i cant swarm in

Could really use some advice and dont say 'bait' or manipulate_Thats there speciality and any mort worth there salt wont fall for it! :P 
Ive been finding boar as useless due to ghast hugging him like glue+occasional heavy burden and ox has been casket timed twice now!

Hope you guys have some good advice to solve this fellow butchers dilemma!

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