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Edek

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Decimate is an amazing kick-off piece because she can reach whoever she wants, push him back 6-8" easily, generate a nice 4 momentum, dodge back while pushing back with her heroic, go back with Second Wind. At this point you have an enemy player really close to your players, Decimate is in a spot that makes engaging her not that appealing and Hooper can go in and bash the model she pushed in. One of the best opening to a game when kicking you can ask for. A solid stack of momentum and a model jailed.

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12 minutes ago, mbdeyes said:

I apologize. I'm not trying to start something (other than a discussion).
However, I really feel like there's a big piece of my Brewers theory missing. I get a lot of statements like, "Decimate with Esters is one of the strongest (if not the strongest) kick off threats in the game."

No worries mate. Forums are here for discussion. 

What I am specifically talking about is:
Kicking with Esters, Quaff, oSpigot, vDecimate, X

  • Decimate kicks off. 
  • Decimate gets 4 inf, Hooper 3, Quaff 1, Esters 5.
  • Spigot sets up free times called on both Hooper and Decimate.
  • Esters gives quick foot to deci and hooper, and tooled up for hooper (but really isnt needed a lot of times). 
  • Quaff gives Pick me up and Second wind to decimate. 
  • X does whatever
  • Decimate activates heroic and jogs 9" to get in melee with someone and hit them 4 times with m>> towards your lines (Hooper) (if less distance is needed you can sneak in a stagger or m3>), she follows up back to your lines after each hit, and ends with Second wind dodge to a good safe position near spigot and esters to prepare for next turn. 
  • Hooper jogs 9" and free heroics, knocks the target down and sets them really low. 
  • Momentum lead, you choose to go first turn 2
  • Hooper starts by free heroic, kills target, and puts up tough skin on decimate.
  • Decimate is ready to go out and drag someone in again this turn. 

That is of course just the rough idea. You can of course sneak in a stolen ball into a goal, or something. But the deathball of Hooper, Esters, Decimate, Spigot is pretty daunting to go into. Especially a player, an activation and momentum down. 

And the brewers ball powers up with every activation and threatens far and have second wind. 

The distance decimate threats on her kick off with both her heroic and second wind for safety is pretty rude in my opinion and synergizes well with the amount of buffs the team puts out. That is why I think she is one of the strongest kick off threats in the game.  Of course personal opinion FWIW

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Hmmm.... if you only have one take down in two turns it seems like the other team could quickly get ahead. 

Of course, other opportunities will present themselves as the other team moves up, leading to less INF spent on Quick Time, etc., and Spigot contributing more directly to damage. 
Would you use Stave as X to get the free KD AoE, messing up goal runs and such?

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4 hours ago, Warpstoned said:

But the deathball of Hooper, Esters, Decimate, Spigot is pretty daunting to go into. Especially a player, an activation and momentum down. 

Also not forgetting that happy little lot tank the punchy teams with all the Tough Hide, and/or smash ball takers with sweet counter attacks or Resilience, and/or can create crowd-out death zones with the 2" melee models and then mop the floor. Pretty solid catchers mitt and if they're in control of the ball too...? Nasty.

It's not terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't see Brewers getting a look in outside of maybe Stave and Stoker and that's only because they are still the poor mans choices in a team of models who obviously have better utility and ease of setup/operational cost/loss. Brewers are surprisingly good and a few whacks of the bat to certain players/Character Traits in other teams would do wonders to settle the score.

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So i played Tapper last night. Quaff, Decimate, Friday, Vet Spigot, Mash. First time i really used Tapper in months. He is very difficult to use as he is so slow compared to other models. Once he is in combat he demolished models. I still feel Esters is a better pick in most occasions. I also feel Stave wither needs one of the following. Resilience / Sturdy / 2 Inch melee. He is poor in Tapper Line up and Average in Esters. People keep talking about Friday, a 2 Inch melee model in b2b stops her doing anything and shes trapped. I always felt she should have where'd they go to get out of trouble.

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3 hours ago, BigRed said:

So i played Tapper last night. Quaff, Decimate, Friday, Vet Spigot, Mash. First time i really used Tapper in months. He is very difficult to use as he is so slow compared to other models. Once he is in combat he demolished models. I still feel Esters is a better pick in most occasions. I also feel Stave wither needs one of the following. Resilience / Sturdy / 2 Inch melee. He is poor in Tapper Line up and Average in Esters. People keep talking about Friday, a 2 Inch melee model in b2b stops her doing anything and shes trapped. I always felt she should have where'd they go to get out of trouble.

Try Tapper with Scum and oSpigot and be patient to see who your opponent tries to move up.
If you're kicking, vDecimate can get in there quickly and move someone up to 8 inches towards Tapper, and Spigot's heroic can be used to make both Decimate and Tapper sprint further. I use Tapper a lot, but I don't think I'd use him with the lineup you picked. oSpigot, Hooper, and Scum all really benefit from Tapper's KD on 1 and Commanding Aura. Crazy amounts of damage.

Friday is useful even if you are locked down. Her Dirty Knives can set whoever she is in contact with up for attack from her team mates, or she can trigger it on someone up to 6" away.
On top of that, she has a momentous push on 2, so she does have some potential to counter attack with that... then on her activation she can dodge out. 
Besides all of that, if she triggers her heroic and is backed up by Spigot, the opponent needs 6's to stop her from breaking away.

Stave definitely needs help to make him more useful, even on Esters' team, in my opinion. 

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On 2/5/2019 at 1:48 PM, BigRed said:

People keep talking about Friday, a 2 Inch melee model in b2b stops her doing anything and shes trapped. I always felt she should have where'd they go to get out of trouble.

She has built in mechanics to get upto 6/1 defence so she's far from stuck, but if you mean that she can't easily tackle a 2" melee model then get out of range before taking a shot, the -1 dice on the roll really isn't that big a deal and can be countered with enough momentum..

Honestly, I think Friday has always been one of the most balanced players in the game which is why she has hardly changed since launch..

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Big Belly on Stave would be somewhat thematic and help him get around a lot of his problems of being a 1" melee momentum battery for your opponent.

I think Brewers are pretty powerful in general but seem to be tied to a few models. Not sure what Tapper needs to be a real choice compared to Esters.

Also Decimate is a horrendously scary kick off model.

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5 hours ago, Clanger said:

I think Brewers are pretty powerful in general but seem to be tied to a few models. Not sure what Tapper needs to be a real choice compared to Esters.

Also Decimate is a horrendously scary kick off model.

I agree with this in general, but I still don't get most people saying that about Tapper. I've had a lot of success with him. He's not as Flexible as Esters, but is a better stereotypical Brewer. If vDecimate brings someone in to your half of the pitch, Tapper can usually take them out or set them up to be finished off by Hooper, oSpigot, or even Scum. Old Jakes is brilliant, and Friday certainly doesn't need Ester's help to get goals, if Decimate and Tapper have already generated momentum.

Commanding aura can be triggered off an attack and affects all friendly guild models across 9+ inches with both +tac and dmg, as opposed to using two activations on Esters and Quaff to do the same thing for a single model.

People complain he's slow, but if you're kicking you can easily give him a 9" sprint/charge just by setting him up 4" from oSpigot and using Time's Called. With the 2" melee, even without Decimate's pushes, that's still a threat first turn. Add in Stave's extra 2" to make it an 11" move if you feel that's needed. If you're receiving, you might want whoever is retrieving the ball to send it back to Mash to kill it, making the opponent come to you. 

I do miss Marked Target for that kind of thing though.

aside:
I am still looking for advice on how people use Esters effectively, if it's Kicking, Receiving, or both, and how your points are scored. I feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. Thanks.

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14 hours ago, mbdeyes said:

I agree with this in general, but I still don't get most people saying that about Tapper. I've had a lot of success with him. He's not as Flexible as Esters, but is a better stereotypical Brewer. If vDecimate brings someone in to your half of the pitch, Tapper can usually take them out or set them up to be finished off by Hooper, oSpigot, or even Scum. Old Jakes is brilliant, and Friday certainly doesn't need Ester's help to get goals, if Decimate and Tapper have already generated momentum.

Commanding aura can be triggered off an attack and affects all friendly guild models across 9+ inches with both +tac and dmg, as opposed to using two activations on Esters and Quaff to do the same thing for a single model.

People complain he's slow, but if you're kicking you can easily give him a 9" sprint/charge just by setting him up 4" from oSpigot and using Time's Called. With the 2" melee, even without Decimate's pushes, that's still a threat first turn. Add in Stave's extra 2" to make it an 11" move if you feel that's needed. If you're receiving, you might want whoever is retrieving the ball to send it back to Mash to kill it, making the opponent come to you. 

I do miss Marked Target for that kind of thing though.

aside:
I am still looking for advice on how people use Esters effectively, if it's Kicking, Receiving, or both, and how your points are scored. I feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. Thanks.

I like Tapper, he is a good brawler and his aura buff is much more efficiently used in a scrum over Esters buffs. People who complains about Tappers speed are usually the same people who takes the opportunity to play vSpigot when they play Tapper - in that case he can be a bit slow. I know, I know, vSpigot is nice, he really is, but just don't play without oSpigot folks. 

I like that Tapper facilitates different models than Esters. Lucky, Pintpot and Scums influence efficiency and low momentous damage pairs well with commanding aura for example. 

However the more stand offish the game is, the better Esters buffs become. 

I kinda would like to have Tappers 4 inf back though, as the team become very dependent on him and his heroic, and Stave is out of the question almost automatically for that reason. 

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With all the 'just play oSpigot' talk, I worry SFG will change his Heroic :P I truly believe it's Time's Called that makes Brewers work :P Tapper needs a better Stave to be a serious alternative to Esters. 

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35 minutes ago, Edek said:

With all the 'just play oSpigot' talk, I worry SFG will change his Heroic :P I truly believe it's Time's Called that makes Brewers work :P Tapper needs a better Stave to be a serious alternative to Esters. 

Well I think that is true, and always has been. A melee guild with no playbook movement and low printed speed kinda needs that. I always thought that was a fun minigame with brewers, getting the times called to work with your activation order and positioning.

That said, it is a bit of a shame that it is on a model with a veteran version. 

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3 hours ago, Warpstoned said:

However the more stand offish the game is, the better Esters buffs become. 

So that would depend on how you think the other player's team will play (what Guild and captain they are using, etc.)?

 

3 hours ago, Warpstoned said:

I kinda would like to have Tappers 4 inf back though, as the team become very dependent on him and his heroic, and Stave is out of the question almost automatically for that reason. 

I can't argue with that.

 

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The general rule of thumb is: When kicking, pick Esters ;) Quick Foot, Time's Called, Decimate, Second Wind are great tools to break stand offs.

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1 hour ago, Edek said:

Then you just swap one Spigot for another ;) The Spigot with Time's Called will always be the preferred one ;) 

I meant they should both have it.

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I’m surprised no one has mentioned Lucky yet.

needs a heroic; without one he’s just not going to be picked with Esters as you’re wasting Aria.

As he doesn’t seem to get much of a look in with Tapper either I’d say he definitely needs something. I don’t see him played with Masons much either.

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7 hours ago, Skinnydookie said:

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Lucky yet.

needs a heroic; without one he’s just not going to be picked with Esters as you’re wasting Aria.

As he doesn’t seem to get much of a look in with Tapper either I’d say he definitely needs something. I don’t see him played with Masons much either.

Some people take him with Tapper for the condition removal. Ester comes with a more efficient version of that though. 

Just don't forget, anything you give him for Brewers will go to the Masons as well.

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On 2/9/2019 at 3:59 PM, mbdeyes said:

Just don't forget, anything you give him for Brewers will go to the Masons as well.

I mean, oChisel is already the best Brewers squaddie in the game so....

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