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TheKing

Ball retrieval issues

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Hey guys,

I just picked up my Falconers team and (besides some playtesting against myself with my Alchemists), I played my first game this weekend. I had Ratcatchers on the other side of the pitch, with a Piper-Bonesaw combo. When Bonesaw gets going, especially with a Reverie by Piper, he is almost unstoppable. So I usually have to concede the first goal if I'm kicking.

My question is this: how do you get the ball back from scoring teams? I tried actively killing it at first, but then I got an easy goal in, which gave the Rats the ball again. I had killed Piper by then, and Bonesaw was surrounded, under a harrier and had Eye Spy on him, so I thought I had negated the next goal... But Piper walked back onto the pitch, somehow the ball ended up on Miasma, and piper just Reveried Miasma for another goal.

I find that the setup that Falconers need to retrieve the ball (or prevent scoring), is kind of slow. I had fully commited to removing Bonesaw, but because I had to focus so hard on him, he just went around and scored with Miasma.

What are your thoughts on fighting scory teams?

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Fighting dedicated scoring teams can definitely be a struggle, since once they have the ball it's annoyingly difficult to get it back from them. I've had some success with sacrificing my own goals to play an elaborate game of keep-away with the opponent, only scoring if I could be certain of retrieving the ball before the opponent's return goal run (usually meaning last activation of one turn where I'm confident in being able to get first activation of the next turn). An example from a tournament this past weekend; I was against Navigators and Mataagi was in a position where he could get an easy goal, but instead I opted to launch the ball into the far corner of the field, effectively killing it for 1.5 turns while the Navigator sent somebody to retrieve it and I could uninterruptedly focus on take-outs.

Something else to try is Devana's air mail; teleporting the ball halfway across the field will usually mess with a goal-scoring team's plans.

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Thanks for the tips! I'll up my ball-killing game next time.

Yeah, Devana's Air mail was the plan - unfortunately I rolled terribly when I attacked Miasma... only 3 net hits is not enough to tackle 🤦‍♂️. And the bad news was that I had to pull the harrier off of Bonesaw to try and get it. So Not only didn't I tackle Miasma, I also didn't kill Bonesaw. Yay for me 😂🤣

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Oof, that's rough 🤣

It definitely feels counter-intuitive and uncomfortable to NOT go for the goal, but bury those feelings! Bury them deep!

EDIT: Oh! Something else that's fun to try is giving the ball to vHearne and letting HIM teleport himself and the ball halfway across the field. If you already have some momentum, he can sprint, skewer+teleport (w/ last light), kick the ball into the far corner, AND attack to recoup a bit of that momentum, moving the ball ~22-30" from where it was at the beginning of the activation.

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Wow, that sounds like a blast! I really have to try that! I'm hoping my vHearne and Egret will arrive in the mail tomorrow! I'm planning on fielding vHearne, but I'm not sure who to leave at home.

I'm kind of having issues getting Mataagi and Rundaas to get anything more done than jogging up and placing a harrier. Usually Devana gets a full stack, Minerva gets a full stack, and that's 8 influence gone. I might give Mataagi one or two, just to have him stand in cover, 6" away from someone, taking shots and hoping for a harrier, but at least a 1dmg + bleed result. If I give him two, I usually just buy the harrier. 

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Ball retrieval is a big weakness of the Falconers. I would advice not to score against scoring teams, unless you can go last and know you have the first activation to try and grab the kick out. 

Death form above and hot shot are dicey and not always super worth it, but they are options there for the desperate. Ikaros is pretty bad too actually, since he often wants to take flight then charge, but if they counter tackle he must use his last inf to tackle again and as such can't use the ball. The Full Back card can help him sometimes. 

Hearne can also be pretty disruptive with his skewered teleport and kd/T on 2. 

But if they have fighting capabilities you probably sacrifice the model to get the ball too, so beware. 

Easiest is of course to just hang on to the ball until you are at 8 points and then score (though easier said than done)

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On 1/14/2019 at 3:50 PM, TheKing said:

I'm kind of having issues getting Mataagi and Rundaas to get anything more done than jogging up and placing a harrier. Usually Devana gets a full stack, Minerva gets a full stack, and that's 8 influence gone. I might give Mataagi one or two, just to have him stand in cover, 6" away from someone, taking shots and hoping for a harrier, but at least a 1dmg + bleed result. If I give him two, I usually just buy the harrier. 

I have mixed feelings on Mataagi; when he's good, he's really good, particularly against slow teams and those who can't handle conditions that well. Unfortunately, he's so fragile that a wrong placement or one lucky die roll against him can be disastrous. I actually really like Rundaas though! I've found him to be most useful if he activates mid-late turn and focuses on either placing his own harrier on top of enemies who have already activated or, better yet, dragging enemies into range of a harrier that's already been placed/into melee with other friendly players. With the Falconers' main schtick being so easy to circumvent, it's really useful having an almost guaranteed 4" of push available.

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Mataagi feels like the true Falconer. Useful, flexible ranged/melee/goals, fast, high defence - but very low health and any bad placement of him and he is gone. 

I really found him pretty useful to end or start turns. Ending turn 1 with some damage and bleed, then starting turn 2 by putting out a harrier, far strike for momentum/dmg/bleed and maybe a snap fire and then retreating gives you a pretty noncommittal way to get momentum, harriers and conditions rolling. 

And the pretty damaged model is now in a harrier and they may feel forced to activate that model or lose it. 

For me Rundaas and Mataagi is the ones who makes the team tick, well, tick as well as a Falconers team can anyway. 

 

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With the (very!) limited amount of games with them, I kind of agree with both statements about Mataagi.

He can be very useful if used correctly, and opening with him has opened up some interesting possibilities. I'm definitely going to put a stack of 3 or 4 on him if I want to do this (buy harrier, Far Strike and maybe a Snap Fire), because I tried using him very conservatively with only 1 influence to Far Strike to get that momentous harrier down. But depending on the target, that resulted in just wasted influence, because I had a bad roll.

Coming back to the topic of this post: against scory teams I think Ikaros is almost an auto-include because he can kill the ball really well with his flexible movement, while still threatening a sneaky goal. Mataagi en Rundaas both bring very useful tricks (or ticks @Warpstoned 😁) to the team. So who do you drop if you want to include vHearne or Egret? Currently, I'm leaning towards vHearne over Egret because of the extra 2" melee, low Tackle/KD and Last Light. 

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I think lumping all scoring teams together (and the kick receive factor) can be a bit too broad of a statement to answer in certain model(s). 

Like, I don't think the gameplan for Order, Corsair, Pin Vice, Navigators, (probably missing something more here) are the same, even though they all want to score some goals as a main plan (usually). 

It also depends on how you want your gameplan to be. Do you think you will need to score goals yourself? If so, are there unpredictable/close control ball holders, rush keepers or similar to think about? Do you want to mainly take outs? Against butchers you probably need a more ranged approach as they have counter charge and demolish you in a fair fight for example. Are you receiving? Is there a Mist/Fathom to try and deny/pressure or are there a Corsair that wants to drag you in and kill you piecemeal to disrupt your plan?

For example against Order I would play both Minerva and Hearne to try and lock down Brisket with 2" and to grind through the midfield beef. Hearnes teleporting can helt in getting around countercharges and sneaking in a goal as well. 

Against Corsair, both MInerva and Hearne are prime targets to be dragged in, and you are likely to not get big set up plays off, just because of all the movement in hag/corsair/kraken. 2" melee only matters if you actually get to use them. Your kicker will probably be at a big risk of getting dragged. 

Against Pin Vice, 2" models is pretty great to try and lock/slow her down. Mataagi is probably the best ball holder due to his higher defence against Salvo. 

Against Navigators/shark, you are probably not going to get big set up plays due to the tempo of the game, so Minerva with her 0 armour isn't that great. Snared from Hearne helps a lot though, and his teleporting gives him great mobility for dealing with spread out threats. 

I am by no means an Falconers expert myself, but just sharing some of my broad thoughts adapting to certain match ups and how I like to think about these kinds of stuff. Naturally terrain, cards and the actual drafted 6 of your opponents matters too, but those questions needs to adapted to on the fly. 
 

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