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Benesato

Bolt Vs Cast

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Just thought I'd ask people's opinions on Bolt Vs Cast. Both sport fairly similar stats, and in fairly similar proportions in terms of ranged, melee, movement, and goal-scoring stats and abilities. A couple of obvious advantages for Bolt in his goal-scoring capacity are his synergy with Farris from the Tutelage trait, and that momentous Tackle on column 2, making him even more capable of tackling the ball away.

Overall, though, every time I think I've worked out which I think is the better all-round player, I look over and find something that seems to balance them right out again. Honestly, if Cast were only 1/3 INF, I'd say it was a close but clear victory for Bolt. But that extra INF really lets Cast get that little bit more done, and I feel creates a complete tie between the two. But that's mostly in theory. I haven't had a chance to play each of them in a bunch of games to see how they really stack up head-to-head.

So, I'd love to hear what people think. Which of the two is overall better? Is my assessment that it's a dead heat right, or in practice does one tend to just outperform the other?

Benesato.

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Thanks for the suggestion. Always good to find a new source of information, and interesting to see Bolt and Cast tag-teaming.

Still no closer to any insight about which, in practice, tends to be more effective (if either), but I guess Blacksmiths' Guild players are more into forging steel than sharing trade secrets or conversation. :) 

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Cast is the player I've been dropping from my 12. I don't think the two are really comparable to be honest.

- Bolt is influence efficient, since he doesn't need more than 1-2 influence to be useful and gets stuff for free from Tutelage

- Bolt has good and nonlinear threat ranges, going 8" without inf / 10" with a sprint, with I'm Open for extra threat / ball handling, and scales super well with Quick Foot

- Shoemerang is better than Shield Throw at getting the ball off a target, since the KD means they can't just re-snap the ball after the scatter, and it works much more reliably on high-def models if there's a low-def one nearby

- Cast really wants 4 inf to do anything useful, and while fast she isn't particularly impactful without setup / influence spent setting her up is better spent on a more impactful output apprentice like Iron, Sledge or vCinder

- She really needs Burning before she does reasonable amounts of damage, which locks in Master choices quite a bit, and even if you have Burnish / Furnace / vCinder none of them trivially apply burning - Burnish doesn't want to activate early in a turn often, Furnace and Cinder need to be in melee, and if Furnace/Cinder are hitting someone literally any apprentice could follow up for the takeout anyway, it doesn't have to be Cast at that point.

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On 12/17/2018 at 10:35 AM, Gauntlet said:

Cast is the player I've been dropping from my 12. I don't think the two are really comparable to be honest.

- Bolt is influence efficient, since he doesn't need more than 1-2 influence to be useful and gets stuff for free from Tutelage

- Bolt has good and nonlinear threat ranges, going 8" without inf / 10" with a sprint, with I'm Open for extra threat / ball handling, and scales super well with Quick Foot

- Shoemerang is better than Shield Throw at getting the ball off a target, since the KD means they can't just re-snap the ball after the scatter, and it works much more reliably on high-def models if there's a low-def one nearby

- Cast really wants 4 inf to do anything useful, and while fast she isn't particularly impactful without setup / influence spent setting her up is better spent on a more impactful output apprentice like Iron, Sledge or vCinder

- She really needs Burning before she does reasonable amounts of damage, which locks in Master choices quite a bit, and even if you have Burnish / Furnace / vCinder none of them trivially apply burning - Burnish doesn't want to activate early in a turn often, Furnace and Cinder need to be in melee, and if Furnace/Cinder are hitting someone literally any apprentice could follow up for the takeout anyway, it doesn't have to be Cast at that point.

This is all correct.

But she still has great movement and kick stats setting her up as a striker of the ball as well as the opponent.

Is the 4 INF given to her going to get 2VP or 4?

The opposition does not know the answer either because at the start of the turn neither do you.

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13 hours ago, The Old Buzzard said:

This is all correct.

But she still has great movement and kick stats setting her up as a striker of the ball as well as the opponent.

Is the 4 INF given to her going to get 2VP or 4?

The opposition does not know the answer either because at the start of the turn neither do you.

She's not a player I'd rely on to get the ball back unless I had no other options. A Column 3 nonmomentous tackle is pretty awful and Shield Throw is unreliable. That leaves her scoring if you already have the ball (which pretty much anyone can do anyway) or taking people out (which the other damage apprentices - Iron, Sledge, vCinder) do better.

She can theoretically play football and score goals, but she isn't good enough at either side to be worth a slot imo.

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I agree with star player that they are not really comparable. However I stand on the opposite bank of the river in regards to how useful I find her.

One of my favorite traits is that she can shield throw from playbook, which is something bolt can't do for instance. Often she can actually shield throw from playbook and recover it on a say 1in3 scatter odds or at least seriously mess up the opponents plans by exposing the ball. 

Bolt has a real hard time making a 6 point activation while with Cast it sometimes feels like it's too easy.

I played with her all the time in S3 and now she's only gotten better. 

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13 hours ago, The Old Buzzard said:

@Gauntlet Yet again you are correct. Though I disagree about whether or not she is worth a slot.

I would remind you about Hearth's 'Instruction". That changes the odds for getting the :T:

True, but it also changes the odds for every other apprentice, so that's not a good reason to take her over someone like vCinder.

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TL;DR

They're not really comparable, but lots of comparing went on, so they are.

Bolt's better, but Cast is better, but they're both about as good as each other.

At least that's what I take away from the discussion, so I guess I'll stick with considering it a dead heat for now. :)

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I view them as the two apprentices skewed the most towards utility bringing ranged knockdowns/scatters, stat debuffs, and "I'm Open!" But they also benefit maybe more than another other apprentice from setup towards their respective goals. Bolt benefiting from doubling speed buffs placed on him and cast having really consistent damage in addition to her mobility on any burning target. 

Someone like Alloy has better goal-threat than Bolt at the top of the turn, and Sledge better damage than Cast. But both of them bring some sort of utility while matching their counterparts or even exceeding them with more extensive setup than their counterparts usually require. 

The way I'm usually thinking about it when deciding which to run is which one is going to benefit the most from the utility I'm bringing with my current draft of masters. Bolt being a strong choice when I'm bringing Masters like Farris or Captain Ferrite, and Cast when I have easy access to burning. If I'm not bringing such buffs I second-guess why I'm considering bringing either for utility and if it's worth it over the other apprentices, although sometimes it still is worth it.

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