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TheBriarfox

Plan into Cogs

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So I'm stepping up to play with the big boys here in a couple weeks, and I want to pick y'all s brains.

Morts I'm comfortable in to in theory. 
Same with hunters, tho I need more practice. Ditto with fish. 
Butchers and Farmers I'm comfortable with. 
But I've never really played into Masons or Cogs. 

What's the general game plan with them? 
I feel like Masons is spread out and ball hard around them. 
Cogs I got nothing. Never played them, never played against them. I feel like they're an Order style janky scoring team, but that's on of the reasons they've stayed on the shelf, I'm just not sure where to even start to crack that nut. 

 

Pointers? Advice? Things to watch out for?
If I can phenagle a Union slot, who do I take? Snakeskin?

Any other GB specific large tournament advice? I've done big cons and stuff before, but are there any GB traditions to be aware of? Like everyone gives a pack of Swedish Fish to Alex Botts or something?

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Funny you should mention Engineers - a regular opponent of mine has picked them up lately and we've gotten a good 6 or so games in. 

Basically they're a football team that can take a punch and likes their ranged character plays. There's a lot of Close Control and a lot of Reanimate. Note the changes in Reanimate from season 3 to season 4. As condition damage happens at the end of turn now, if you've triggered Reanimate during the turn, then conditions can cause the takeout. If the conditions trigger Reanimate, then the Engineer model will still have Reanimate to protect them during the following turn.

Crucible is a real pain in the neck for them. Great Balls of Fire is worth its weight in gold in this particular match-up. She can out-range the likes of Velocity and Pin Vice and steal the ball off them.

I think I've covered Snakeskin on another thread - I love her here. Engineers absolutely can't stand the sight of her.

Models to be careful of? Salvo tops the list for me. Check his season 4 unveil blog post for the details but he can knock down players, steal free balls and dodge across half the pitch. A very dangerous ball player. Keep an eye out for Harriet - if she hits a model with Sucker Punch they'll lose possession of the ball, which could be a problem with Salvo about. And give Colossus proper respect. Spider boy is a real beast now.

On balance I think this is still a Smoke matchup. There's a good amount of tough hide and high defence around but not huge amounts of actual health. Stack those conditions high and go to town.

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1 hour ago, PanzerHarris said:

 

On balance I think this is still a Smoke matchup. There's a good amount of tough hide and high defence around but not huge amounts of actual health. Stack those conditions high and go to town.

I mean, what match isn't a Smoke match these days?

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In my view? Farmers (too much health and anti-condition tech), Hunters (stupid bears) and Morticians (put crazy ball and clock pressure on Scalpel, because otherwise everybody's dead by turn 3 or 4).

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1 hour ago, PanzerHarris said:

In my view? Farmers (too much health and anti-condition tech), Hunters (stupid bears) and Morticians (put crazy ball and clock pressure on Scalpel, because otherwise everybody's dead by turn 3 or 4).

Not gonna lie, unsure of hunters, but I like Smoke into Morts and Farmers. Too hard to pin down and runs circles around the Farmers. 

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Disagree. Those are 3 teams with very little problem hitting Smoke in the face with a 2" model. But hey, at the moment it's theoretical anyway. Subject to me getting that Midas team to work...

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You run circles around them and do what? You score goals, get TOs? With the ball they have no problem reaching anybody on the alchemists team

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55 minutes ago, Edek said:

You run circles around them and do what? You score goals, get TOs? With the ball they have no problem reaching anybody on the alchemists team

Both of those teams I tend to play hard into 3-0. If I can pivot into a kill, so be it. Farmers tend to be too slow to stop forked approaches. Morts is tough, but careful positioning and limiting approaches goes a long way. Call me crazy, but I've had luck with Compound shutting down a Scalpel or Saw run plenty of times. Crucible is worth her weight in gold in both matches. 

They both have a fair bit of condition removal, sure, but it necessitates resources or a specific OOA, plus the fact that conditions just happen for us, and you find yourself with waves of attrition you can leverage. 

I'm sure I'm placing too much faith in myself, but I these are the teams I've played into most and the once I'm most comfortable coming up against. 

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Why is Midas better? I have seen multiple people claim this but I haven't seen an explination. Midas has a base goal threat of 18', Smoke has 20' and can be placed anywhere within 7" as a part of goal run allowing her to disengage or avoid models without the need to hit some dodges on a playbook. 

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1 hour ago, MechMage said:

Midas has a buyable 2" dodge making his goal threat 20" and he can use Lure of Gold to extend another friendly model's goal threat allowing for two goals turn one.

The dodge brings his range to 18" (8" sprint + 8" kick + 2" acrobatic). Any further movement requires him to be within 1" of an enemy model.

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Smoke has a problem getting the ball from the opponent. Midas with TAC6 and a T> on one does that better. Smoke has a better goal threat range when in possession of the ball and you don't want to interact with the opponent. When the ball is on an enemy model and especially one with considerable DEF then Midas gets the job done and Smoke has to count on other models to get the ball.

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1 hour ago, Edek said:

Smoke has a problem getting the ball from the opponent. Midas with TAC6 and a T> on one does that better. Smoke has a better goal threat range when in possession of the ball and you don't want to interact with the opponent. When the ball is on an enemy model and especially one with considerable DEF then Midas gets the job done and Smoke has to count on other models to get the ball.

What this man said.

If Smoke has to use her playbook, she's in trouble. It's an awful playbook and she's TAC 5. In terms of ball retrieval and dodging, Midas' playbook is vastly better and he's TAC 6.

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3 hours ago, PanzerHarris said:

What this man said.

If Smoke has to use her playbook, she's in trouble. It's an awful playbook and she's TAC 5. In terms of ball retrieval and dodging, Midas' playbook is vastly better and he's TAC 6.

It IS though.  IT'S SOOOOO BADDD. 😫

But that's also how I've learned/taught myself to play, which might explain some things. I tend to play a more avoidant style, and I never rely on Smoke getting ahold of the ball herself (I think I did once). That's what Crucible, Mercury, and Vitriol are for, and I usually have at least 2 of them in the roster. I mean, GBoF is pound for pound some of the best ball tech in the game, might as well put it to use. Once you have poison out, even Venin can reclaim a ball with relative ease. 

Plus, I'll just say it, my positioning is sophomoric at best, and Smoke is far more forgiving when it comes to getting yourself out of a tight situation. Being able to just up and teleport out of a scrum or across some crap terrain or into goal range while negating junk like Rush Keeper has proven to be absolutely invaluable. 

And I had the good fortune of playing into them at game night yesterday. 

I took Smoke, oCalc, Flask, Merc, Crucible, and Venin Oberyn into Ballista, Ratchet, Mainspring, Colossus, Harriet and Compound. Went better than I expected. 12-8 and it basically came down to an activation. If he hadn't have gotten the takeout to win, I was scoring (presumably) the turn after to close it out myself, and would have won during end step from takeouts besides, since Mainspring and Ballista were both under 3 hp, and Ratchet was low as well. I missed a pass too that would have led to an earlier first goal. Then again, he missed 3 sucker punches in a row on Smoke with the ball, so I guess it all evens out. Really slow opening. Ball went off into a far side of the pitch behind some blocking terrain and no one could get to it until T2. The two goals came off Ballista and Colossus, Smoke bit the dust, and oCalc went off the pitch. 

Smoke was a champ none the less and did Smoke things as usual, including a 5 hit legendary which honestly changed the tempo of the game some, putting a number of Cogs into a health zone where TOs were a possibility and forcing more careful play on his part. Venin laid down some beats, but he turned out to not be as relevant as usual, leaning heavy on his heroic. Merc and Crucible were clutch. Crucible never failed to recover the ball, and the MomPB results on Merc helped me keep up with momentum race. oCalc was able to get momentus sticky off a fair few times, but blind (the reason I went with her) never ended up being relevant. She was too far off on the wings to hit anyone meaningful at a time where it would have made a difference. While it's not really her fault, she was definitely the weakest link. Might have taken vCalc for the mobility or even the aforementioned Snakeskin to mess with their lines of play. I can see how she would be a HUGE problem for Cogs. 

 

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