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malladin.ben

Suggestion for next year's Draft

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So from the keynote it seems like the plans are to run the draft again next year, so I thought I might, humbly, make a little suggestion that I think could make it even better...

Firstly, though, I think I might just want to explain what I think was the weakness with this year's draft. Listening to GBT podcast, Bill and Phil were largely apathetic about it, and at the start I had similar feelings. It was only when I started to come up with my own ideas for what the rookies might be like as models playing for my guild that I was able to start to pick a rookie to support and get involved, then once I was I really enjoyed the banter and memes and other rivalries with other players in my guild.

Hence I think what we need to start with next year is an initial set of rookie-level stats for each player, along with a paper-doll, that way we can start playing with them in our teams and seeing how they might fit in and having a rough idea of basic playstyle for each model. They should be below the level of power of a existing squaddie so that there's room to develop some individual guild flavour on top - Each would probably only have one signature play or trait to provide plenty of space to add to afterwards. Their playbooks could also be largely or entirely non-momentous with additional standard rules for making different results momentous depending on which guild they are playing with. You could also play games of just the rookies themselves like they do in the stories.

But anyway, my main idea is that we should have a deliberately underpowered-framework type of model that we can play with and get a rough idea of how the model might work within our teams.

Cheerio,

Ben

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Rather than adding another player to the major guild rosters, why not "vote" to see which Minor gets a promotion to the big leagues...

Or, as I know after the UiC event, people prefer knowing every guild gets a thing, do a mascot draft.. 30 animals (that are not already in use) go into an "inspiration pool" and each guild (major and minor) needs to bid for the one they want...

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I like the draft idea but would like it to be focused within the guilds themselves.

Ideas:
New Captain Model. Players vote for an existing model in their guild of choice to be promoted to a captain.

New mascot. Team can vote between a selection of mascots for their guild.

New model to play up and down between minor and major guild.

 

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So I had a much longer post, but I think o can sum it up as this. I think this sounds really fun, but limits the end design too much to be worth it. Trying to force certain abilities into certain guilds could result in some pretty poor models I feel so I think the generic scouting reports that players can read into are the way to go.

Maybe next year they might give more information or be a tad more specific to give some players a little more incentive, but this years event was awesome, so if it stays as is I’d be fine with that. 

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I would personally recomend avoiding creating characters that risk not meshing with some of the Guild's themes, most notably in aesthetic. Cutlass, Flea and Kami all ran the risk of landing in guilds where they would feel out of place.

One thing that may be interesting would be to allow the draftees to be fan submitted, but there would probably be a deluge of problems arising from that. 

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32 minutes ago, ultimogringo said:

What problem?

Well first you would have to contain clauses about IP and ownership, and also figuring out how the owner would get credited. Then you would have to have people sort through all of the submissions and select a small amount that would chosen to go to the draft, which would take a large amount of time and manpower for a smaller company. Then there is the issue of character diversity, there would likely be a lot of submissions for Attacking Midfielders and jank players, but rather lacking in terms of some more practical style characters. Then when you do select the characters you would have to write them in the story, and can't just have one POV character who receives an arc and development like they did this year. Finally it also risks the issues discussed above, of characters with an obvious theme in mind, who would stand out more, risk feeling out of place if they are chosen  by certain guilds. 

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6 hours ago, Redmaw said:

Rather than adding another player to the major guild rosters, why not "vote" to see which Minor gets a promotion to the big leagues

This 100% It has been mention before by Sherwin as an Idea for a Future Community Event

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Do we need another draft? If this starts becoming annual, it will lead to bloat in the majors. Maybe if it's for the Minors (which will lead to OPD changes and probably controversy) it might work, but even for Captains or Mascots, it leads to difficulties because of the limits on both and the way captains and mascots often are paired so there is almost a given mascot for each captain (I know it's not a locked in "you have too" pairing, but each mascot does tend to work better with a certain captain). Hoping for something more interesting/new.

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I think there's some good ideas for alternatives to the draft here, but my point is that IF the draft stays as it was this year (which was hinted at) how could you improve the engagement levels?

On 11/13/2018 at 3:06 PM, Hunters-15 said:

I think this sounds really fun, but limits the end design too much to be worth it. Trying to force certain abilities into certain guilds could result in some pretty poor models I feel so I think the generic scouting reports that players can read into are the way to go.

The idea is that the model is a basic framework only, maybe with one key ability (like Kill Ball on Kami). And even that ability doesn't need to be set in stone. Not only would it hardly restrict design at all, but it would also allow you to get some initial playtesting feedback on whethe that ability is too powerful in a particular guild and tone it down.

For example,  if a player had goad and when you put that in butchers it makes everyone else's life difficult you could create a similar ability that did fit with butchers to replace it with,  maybe something that gave a model penalties if they hit someone other than the "goading" model, or with range P so that it fit more into the butcher's playstyle or limits it's effectiveness in some way.

If it's limiting design options it's been done wrong. It's just to give people a better idea of what the model might do, which was so often the criticism of this year's event 

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4 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

The idea is that the model is a basic framework only, maybe with one key ability (like Kill Ball on Kami). And even that ability doesn't need to be set in stone. Not only would it hardly restrict design at all, but it would also allow you to get some initial playtesting feedback on whethe that ability is too powerful in a particular guild and tone it down.

If you aren’t going to gaurantee that the model will have the one ability or general stats you are testing it with, and you make that VERY clear, then it would probably be fine. I still think it leaves the door open to have some people frustrated that they spent all of their votes to get Goad into the Butchers, only to have it be some other ability that might be like Goad, but still isn’t Goad. 

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If the abilities that the rookies have during the event aren’t necessarily what they will be released with, what if you combine the community event with a full blown rookie league? Before the event you release a scouting report and a paper model for each new rookie. Bonus points to SFG if they release actual rookie models a few weeks before the event for players to purchase. Right before the event starts the first rookie card for each rookie gets released and players use it for week one. Then each week, alongside the standings/popular model updates, they release the next level rookie cards for each rookie. 

Probably too much work to pull off, but I think it would be awesome. The rookie league has been engaging at the conventions I’ve played it at and this community event was pretty engaging across the entire community. Combining them into one massive event would be pretty spectacular. 

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5 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I think there's some good ideas for alternatives to the draft here, but my point is that IF the draft stays as it was this year (which was hinted at) how could you improve the engagement levels?

There needs to be some incentive to get other players to vote the way you want them to (other than "it'll be funny to screw this guild).. Looking at this year's event, people decided to shaft Brewers, Brewers got shafted and basically gave up (or started registering votes for other guilds)..

While I know it would be a lot more logistical work they could have given a code when registering games. You could then give this code to a player in another guild and when redeemed, both players get double points for their chosen guild / rookie.. Likewise, rather than Union just getting the new Greed, they could have said that Union players needed to redeem "X" amount of these codes within the time limit, first to unlock the mini going into production, then to unlock the artwork / sculpt / rules / etc...

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4 hours ago, Hunters-15 said:

 I still think it leaves the door open to have some people frustrated that they spent all of their votes to get Goad into the Butchers, only to have it be some other ability that might be like Goad, but still isn’t Goad. 

This. I'm waiting caustiously to see what Layne, an alleged super striker, is going to bring to the Butchers, a team that SFG decided to tone down in the  goal scoring department. Not saying that's a bad call, but it creates a conflict between the design team and the players. I understand that you want certain teams to have certain play styles, and not all become homogenious. But not everyone gets that. 

I have to wonder if our majors aren't already at the point of saturation. How many more dodgey scorers can the Fish have?

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5 hours ago, Redmaw said:

There needs to be some incentive to get other players to vote the way you want them to (other than "it'll be funny to screw this guild).. Looking at this year's event, people decided to shaft Brewers, Brewers got shafted and basically gave up (or started registering votes for other guilds)..

While I know it would be a lot more logistical work they could have given a code when registering games. You could then give this code to a player in another guild and when redeemed, both players get double points for their chosen guild / rookie.. Likewise, rather than Union just getting the new Greed, they could have said that Union players needed to redeem "X" amount of these codes within the time limit, first to unlock the mini going into production, then to unlock the artwork / sculpt / rules / etc...

Brewers was last because they had so little votes coming In, I was talking to Sherwin about the numbers, he said at one point they had single digits coming In and their direct competition had had ten times that.

The end of the day Its the Shadow Games for a reason as you saw with Hunters/Morticians. 

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11 minutes ago, Kueller said:

Brewers was last because they had so little votes coming In, I was talking to Sherwin about the numbers, he said at one point they had single digits coming In and their direct competition had had ten times that. 

I understand that, but after the first few weeks it just seemed pointless voting for Brewers or even participating in the event at all.. Same thing happened last year with the Masons in the most one sided guild vs guild pairing in the whole UiC event..

What I'm suggesting is if there was a way to incentivise people to vote with you or just prevent everyone "ganging up" on one guild at the start then it would improve the overall participation regardless of which guild people play..

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44 minutes ago, Kueller said:

The end of the day Its the Shadow Games for a reason as you saw with Hunters/Morticians. 

Which in fairness was through no fault of the morticians players, we had the choice taken off us too last year :P

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1 minute ago, Mako said:

Which in fairness was through no fault of the morticians players, we had the choice taken off us too last year :P

Its all Obulus fault!

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1 hour ago, Kueller said:

The end of the day Its the Shadow Games for a reason as you saw with Hunters/Morticians. 

 

16 minutes ago, Mako said:

Which in fairness was through no fault of the morticians players, we had the choice taken off us too last year :P

 

13 minutes ago, Kueller said:

Its all Obulus fault

 

I think one thing we can all agree on, is if that "trap" was as planned as we have been led to believe, it was truly well played by the Hunters and certainly ignited the results reveal...

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11 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I think there's some good ideas for alternatives to the draft here, but my point is that IF the draft stays as it was this year (which was hinted at) how could you improve the engagement levels? 

I think if it stays the same, engagement will drop significantly, due to it being the same. The alternatives ARE ways to increase engagement. Bloat is a real concern, and I don't want to encourage unrestricted growth, as it is unsustainable and causes fatigue.

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I don’t think engagement will drop too much when it’s a 6 or 7 week event that takes place once a year. If all of the new rookies fall flat I could see it being a little less exciting. If the new rookies are fun and impactful I could see it being more exciting.   Regardless of exactly what it is I do know I’m looking forward to playing in it again. 

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1 hour ago, Hunters-15 said:

I don’t think engagement will drop too much when it’s a 6 or 7 week event that takes place once a year. If all of the new rookies fall flat I could see it being a little less exciting. If the new rookies are fun and impactful I could see it being more exciting.   Regardless of exactly what it is I do know I’m looking forward to playing in it again. 

Yeah I feel the same, I think more people engage with the Event and Its was the biggest to date.

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2 hours ago, AaronWilson. said:

The problem is every rookie would work differently in each different guild, so having a "framework" wouldn't really work.

The flip side of that is not bothering to participate because none of the information available means anything.  Saying that a character is a “ball hander” is all well and good, but that can be a 4 die kick stat, close control, both or neither.  Rinse and repeat for every other descritor we got.

Since there’s nothing concrete about the players to base a choice you get phenomena like the Butchers makeing the meta-decision they want Kami.  Little if anything to do with game play, everything to do with going on the information they actually have, and in this case an impulse to be contrary.  

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