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I could see a place for something like it in place of Kraken in a Shark lineup. Maybe control abilities mirroring Kraken. Kraken is now best buddies with Corsair in the new version of the murderball and Shark might like something similar but in an independent package.

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17 minutes ago, supertzar said:

I could see a place for something like it in place of Kraken in a Shark lineup. Maybe control abilities mirroring Kraken. Kraken is now best buddies with Corsair in the new version of the murderball and Shark might like something similar but in an independent package.

Kraken being good for Corsair does not inherently make him a poor choice for Shark.

With Gravity Well, Protective Instinct and a 3/6" Kick, Kraken is perfect for a lot of Shark teams because he stops Shark and his other squishy friends being hit as much and still plays ball.

The design space for defensive models is wide open but once the caveats of fits fish paradigm, does not fill roll of existing model and provides something of use to team victory conditions are applied that space becomes very tight

It's not the end of the world but its a duff place to be starting from.

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30 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

Kraken being good for Corsair does not inherently make him a poor choice for Shark.

With Gravity Well, Protective Instinct and a 3/6" Kick, Kraken is perfect for a lot of Shark teams because he stops Shark and his other squishy friends being hit as much and still plays ball.

The design space for defensive models is wide open but once the caveats of fits fish paradigm, does not fill roll of existing model and provides something of use to team victory conditions are applied that space becomes very tight

It's not the end of the world but its a duff place to be starting from.

Yeah I wasn't saying he was bad for anyone, he's amazing now for all that I can see. What I meant was that Knuckles could be something that does something similar but without needing to engage (edit: omg counter charge), letting Shark spread out more.

Anyway all we really have competed for now was fluff. There are no models actual yet so I'm fairly certain he will eventually be a good fit. And erratas happen even after that. We are getting a new toy to play with and that makes me excited.

Edited by supertzar

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11 hours ago, supertzar said:

Anyway all we really have competed for now was fluff. There are no models actual yet so I'm fairly certain he will eventually be a good fit. And erratas happen even after that. We are getting a new toy to play with and that makes me excited.

We competed for a name, fluff and a position.

The first two really don't matter, but the last one has a level of mechanical impact by informing rule design (ie the model will have rules made to produce a defensive midfielder rather than rules written that are then used to work out role).

I can see us getting another push tool that will feed into Corsair's ring out on the wings game plan which I dont think is how the team was intended to be played (I may be wrong here).

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Corsair, Jac, Kraken and Azimuth all are defensive midfileder. I find all of them pretty powerfull in our guild. Jac was my answer to thresher, and seems to be my newly needed answer to Scalpel. Our team is a team of striker and controller. A  lot of control seems to come from defensive midfielder. Maybe the emphasis will be put on that side of the player...

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10 minutes ago, Thyamath said:

Corsair, Jac, Kraken and Azimuth all are defensive midfileder. I find all of them pretty powerfull in our guild.

Azimuth doesn’t play for the Fishermen though so he is not in our guild.

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Navigator is the Minor Guild of Fishermen ... So he is a Fisherman ... Well at least, he is in the "kinda same" design space.

 

Maybe I should go check if the defensive midfielder=control is a rule for every guild, but not sure there is a big point to this.

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Defensive Midfielder is a bit of a loose term although in the non-captain versions there tends to be variations around the theme of beefy beater with control/support utility.

Average moves, low defence but some sort of resistance built in (higher than normal Arm, tough hide etc). There are a couple of oddities such as oSpigot who is a damage dealer, but for the most part you get models that move very linearly and either enable/protect nearby friends or knock down/reposition enemy models after getting into melee range.

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It's not the fact we are getting another defensive player for a team that is now meant to be playing more aggressive football, there is a lot of variation between defensive midfielders (oHemlocke and oSiogot are DMs just to give an idea of how different they could be)

My lack of optimism is down to the fact that we will get a defensive midfielder player that has to fit a bio which is summed up as "Is basically like Kraken".

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Reading the bio, I'm thinking that he might get some sort of ability like Counter Charge, which could definitely be interesting to have on our team. He could prove to be a valuable asset to get the ball back in a different sort of way, especially if he has an early Tackle result as well. 

Any other plays/abilities you guys can think of that could be valuable to have on the Fish that are different than our other defensive midfielders?

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Tooled up. All the Corsair setups I've seen play do so on the wings for the chance to do out of bounds pushes rather than invest in damage for a Coup de Grace pay off and I'm not sure if that is how Corsair was envisioned.

Put Tooled Up in the mix and you suddenly have a two turn setup in which Corsair, Jac, Kraken or Sakana can more reliably do 3 damage per swing which opens up who they can be a threat to al lot more.

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Risky, isn't it ? Cause with tooled up, every one of our player turn into an ok brawler, and then the 3-0 is dead. Shark teams will often have more ease to do 2-2 (as a main plan, I mean), with +1 damage. Siren 1 turn into an awesome charger. Well a least it could compensate the nerf of Jac _in that plan_ (2-2).

 

Something like giving assit (Squad tactics ? ) could be better, as it help with damage, but not in an as easy way, and is more for Corsair (which, I think, like to play in group) than shark which like to play heavily spread, without forbiding shark to use it of course (but with adaptation of the usual way to play, which can be an interesting change from time to time). Also the lot of push would help getting the assist and the assit would kinda avoid the plan of taking the guy out by the border.

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I could live with squad tactics. It would actually have a good interaction with Kraken and his S4 role of black hole. We would then be looking at something very akin to vChisel but probably at Def 3+ Arm 1 and Tough Hide because Fish don't get a lot of Armour. Maybe throw in the Knockback trait to make him play a bit more into the Fish control game to set up the scrum

Frankly unless they ignore the bio and go for a more control/support themed DM in the vein of Hemlocke rather than the resilient beater Knuckles is billed as being I dont think Shark is going to get much from this.

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40 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

Frankly unless they ignore the bio and go for a more control/support themed DM in the vein of Hemlocke rather than the resilient beater Knuckles is billed as being I dont think Shark is going to get much from this.

I could actually see getting a bit of use out of Knuckles as written against certain teams that cross a bit more into the footballing territory. Kraken has certainly been buffed a bit more with all of his stats increasing. With Kraken playing more of a centralized midfielder and controlling that area, Knuckles could provide that extra bit of defensive utility needed for a Shark team to prevent the score right back again. Depending on his abilities, we may be able to adapt into a more defensive footballing strategy if needed. Shark, and your choice of two other squaddies can easily share the goalscoring between themselves. Knuckles might be able to provide that bit of extra defense needed against other aggressive footballing teams, allowing the offensive players even more freedom around the pitch. 

With that being said, we won't be able to tell until we get a look at his abilities. Anyone know anything about the timeline on finding out?

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They said In the Keynote that there will be another Playtest Event to test out the Rookies when they get designed which I'm guessing will be Q1 2019 :)

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Great to hear! I am quite interested to see not only how Knuckles is made, but how some of the other characters fall into place in other guilds. For example, how will Cutlass fit into the masters and apprentices of the Blacksmith's guild? Still surprised she went there actually.

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I really doubt they'll do anything that actually increases the Fish damage potential, based on the interviews I heard/read from the S4 release.

I'm personally not comfortable with Corsair's S4 game. It seems far too situational and hard to set up compared to simply putting Shark, either version of Sakana, and Greyscales anywhere on the field... but maybe I need to play some more casual games with Corsair and Jac.

I'm not thrilled with Knuckles for some of the reasons already stated, but we'll see what it looks like when the stats are published.

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