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Fishy Tactics s4

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Hey everyone!

I consider myself a newer player maybe only about 30 games under my belt since mid season 3. Most of those games with Morts. I am thinking about jumping back in with Fish as I really enjoy the ball game. 

I was just curious about some general tactics In season 4. Who is kicking? Who is receiving? What into which teams? Dos and don’ts? How aggressive should a new fisherman player be at getting that ball?

I thought it would be nice to start a post for all newer or prospective fish players. I know season 4 is brand spanking new but I figured this post can grow along with experience.

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With Fish, you're always good at receiving. Shark prefer to have the bal, make some momentum and goal run on last activation of the turn, then activate first next turn, legendary on the whole opponent team (without moving first, if able) then go for a second goal. Corsair can use the ball to gain some movement, however you use him. Corsair also like kicking,giving him some movement without to much to worry about the ball. But this is only my (mostly humble ^^ ) opinion, which is quite strongly disproved by the communnity about Corsair, and Since I play mostly Shark ...

With Shark Receiving so is quite simple. Kicking... their is quite a lot of tech. The first and most obvious one is kicking with Shark himself. We will almost always be able to go for a first activation goal if you want to. Doing that you can give up on shark so, and if he dy there, this is not a big deal. If he die at the start of the second turn, before activating for his legendary, you're quite in the worst case scenario. You might want to feat on the first turn, then. In S3, and  I think I will continue in S4, I was almost kicking with Siren, especially when there was a fast terrain. Two case. The opponent can't put the ball far enough, and you get the ball, either by charging or casting seduce by hand, then dodging back, kicking back or putting the ball on the ground at some point where your opponent can't get it back. It can be good to do that even ifhe can, just to force him to do so, cause if he don't it's like you get best of two world, kicking and receiving. Try to make life hard for him so, and try not to concede a goal. Conceiding a goal in the first activation is still not so bad, as you will then farm momentum, the go for your own goal and probably get two of them. If your opponent play very well, or you had a very bad kick off, Siren might not be able to get the ball. Still this is a quite big interdiction area for your opponent, 11 to 15 with the ball. At the worst she would be able to lure someone closer to the border of the pitch for someone else (I was using Jac, maybe now I will use Kraken, depending of is on the other side) to throw out. That way you threatening the 2-2 quite fast, if you're opponent is good enough to kill the ball against a team entirely dedicated to get the ball back. (most easily said than done)

You could also kick with vSakana for quite the same reasons.

If that plan worked, you had a better deal kicking. But it is really unsafe.

With Corsair, I use the big guy to kick from one side, hoping to drag someone (and take him out) or the ball (with help of Hag or Jac to get the last feaw inches), not really caring for the ball.

 

 

More generally speaking, Shark want a team dedicated to get the ball so he can put 3 goal. He is ok to tackle so the most difficult part is usually to get the ball on the floor.  Siren2 Greyscale, salt, fathom are very good at that. You probably want either Siren1 or Sakana2 (I prefer Siren1, and like Sakana1, but sometimes you want Siren2 so... Sakana2 is a good palliative) to get the ball from far away or against player difficult to tacle for any reason, the two for bunker teams. Siren1 also has the advantage of lure, helping to get the ball on the floor with an opponent player. Having some way to change your plan to a 2-2 instead of a 3-0 is also a good Idea.

With Corsair, we're still searching, I think. I like to put him one one side, be very resilient and take people out of the pitch by slowly pushing them and clocking my opponent giving him only bad choice.

 

Do : Let you players die (but not for nothing). They are fast and will come back where they are the most usefull. Do Counter attack. A lot. All you're players have powerfull counter atack. Even the mascotts if you can grab some success. Do Spread. A lot. Having someone not doing anything all the game is not a problem. If he is not there, the opponent can kill the ball wher he should be.

Don't : Intercept/Tackle ball with a player which already played (except at the very end of the turn). You want the ball to live. On an oponent player, and often even on your Goal, is better than on someone which already played, since we lack any form of "I'm Open". Don't forget you're Beautifull . ^^

 

 

Also for your information, a short description of every model and what they are used for (by me. Probably others too) Going for a Goal is pretty much doable for the whole team (maybe not Kraken and difficult for Jac) so when it noted, it's they are reaaally good at it)

Salt : Get the ball on the floor (14"). Block line. Put a Goal from where youre opponent doesn't expect.

Tentacle : Controle. Keep the ball.

Angel : Don't. Snapshot pole (5dice, 10", 6 def). Better use of Salt (to get the ball). Influence eating.

Fathom : Getting the ball on the floor (15"). Goal (22"). Allowing you to use Angel. Removing Conditions

Greyscale : Getting the ball on the floor (12"), getting the ball on an opponent, including someone not easy to tackle. Keeping the ball.

Hag : Not using any influence, getting some free movement, rearrenging everyone. Being annoying. (especially for an engaged Boar :p)

Horizon : Annoying. Helping you to get the ball from player which kill it behind there goal post. Taking player just getting back out (or at least threatening to). Get the ball on the floor (10" by walking, 12" running). Getting the ball on opponent player with a charge. Messing with opponent not good at calculus.

Jac : Control. Gaining a few inch. Pushing peaople out. without any influence. Tackle.

Kraken : Being resilient. KD. Push/drag. Annoying.

SSSS

Sakana : Messing with armor. Goal. Getting the ball on the floor.

vSakana : Getting the ball on other player, including very difficult to tacles one. Make plays more reliable. Little control.

Siren : CONTROL ! Getting the ball on opponent player . Don't forget to dodge while doing it. More resilient that it seem, paricullarly against male, and with Kraken (5/1 Beautifull, qualifies as  resilient). Don't forget about lure (your opponent will... often).

vSiren : Getting the ball on the floor (17"), KD from a distance. Being fast. Tackle. Being resilient with escape fate.

 

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Oh wow! Above and beyond anything I would have expected thank you for all the advice!

i managed to get a few Games in against brewers yesterday.

my line up was...shark, tentacles, Sekana, siren, hag, greyscales.

1st Game against esters 12-2 win

2nd Game tapper 12-0 win

i fekt like I was able to get the ball anytime I wanted it. Loading up shark was almost never a bad idea even when locked down in the backfield by pintpot I just used him to generate momentum to ensure a greyscales charge into mom dodge balls gone sekana snap shot. Knowing when to let players die seemed to be imparative to the plan. Honestly at times it felt like I was a real fisherman using my models as bait. :) 

I think like you that it’s too hard for me to not take siren1 that momentus seduce is soo powerful 

I am however struggling to find a place for Jac. Maybe he’s part of the group I take with Corsair? Also angel seems really good but we’re already so great at hitting the ball and most people playing into us know we have that 2inch reach so bring their own. That counter Kd on tapper and hooper was horrendous.

are there particular teams you tend to favor certain players into? I feel like new butchers with all there 2in mele will be rough on us in s4. Thinking I’ll try angel out this weekend into masons flint won’t know what to do. Haha

thanks! :) 

 

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Flint has close control which taters Angel quite a bit so in general oSiren, Greyscales and vSakana are better bets against him espescially in the MP generating depatment

Just remember that Siren is HP 10, so getting to Def 5+ and Arm 1 when next to Kraken (wont last long as they ply their trade in very different areas of the pitch) will not stop her falling over very quickly.

Jac really does not have much of a place at the moment because he has a bit too much cross over with Hag who gets to do stuff for free.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

Flint has close control which taters Angel quite a bit so in general oSiren, Greyscales and vSakana are better bets against him espescially in the MP generating depatment

Just remember that Siren is HP 10, so getting to Def 5+ and Arm 1 when next to Kraken (wont last long as they ply their trade in very different areas of the pitch) will not stop her falling over very quickly.

Oops good call on the close control totally forgot about it. In that case what kind of things would you run angel into? Or is she more of bring along when running Corsair kind of player?

in the 2 recent games I played siren almost went down twice. She shreds like wet paper but that playbook is so rewarding when it works. Have yet to try kraken not sure if I see a place for him in a shark team (who I’ve been currently playing with) although I could be dead wrong as my experience with fish is only 2 games in. The rest is all theory crafting. The only character I could think to drop would be the hag but her movement shenanigans are just too good. Maybe I could drop sekana and try him out but the anatomical percision sure is nice. Also a quick foot from shark and a smoke bomb to really get him going. 

I have yet to try vet sekana. Would you say he’s best used into trans who run say run 1 or 2 reliable strikers?

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Although the season is young and there is testing to be done the most common take on Angel has been indifference. In season 3 she was overlooked a lot because all she only did on thing shoot. The general problem this raised was that pretty much all fish can shoot well but also do other things. In season 4 she is much of the same except she has a <T on one and the ability to make Salt dodge instead of Jac doing it (which is not much of a valuable trait given Tentacles is just a better pick at mascot).

To me the biggest thing that stuffs Angel is that as well as lacking 2" in a team that needs as much of it as possible she also has no built in ability to dodge, movement tech or capacity to ignore parting blows so she can get bogged down in melee easily which not not a good thing for a dedicated striker.

Krakens overhaul makes him a little tricky to fully judge but I've been enjoying him with Shark. He is good at controlling the midfield to keep pressure off others and his boosted kick stat means he can be part of the passing chain in turn 1 when receiving and he can help move the ball out to the rest of the team when opponents score.

Both Sakanas are good just at different things. vSakana is more of a midfielder that does control and ball recovery but can also go and score than a dedicated goal scorer. Both Sakana play forward and will rarely interact with opposing teams strikers and which you pick is more based on how much you think you need the extra bit of speed and weak point.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

Although the season is young and there is testing to be done the most common take on Angel has been indifference. In season 3 she was overlooked a lot because all she only did on thing shoot. The general problem this raised was that pretty much all fish can shoot well but also do other things. In season 4 she is much of the same except she has a <T on one and the ability to make Salt dodge instead of Jac doing it (which is not much of a valuable trait given Tentacles is just a better pick at mascot).

To me the biggest thing that stuffs Angel is that as well as lacking 2" in a team that needs as much of it as possible she also has no built in ability to dodge, movement tech or capacity to ignore parting blows so she can get bogged down in melee easily which not not a good thing for a dedicated striker.

Krakens overhaul makes him a little tricky to fully judge but I've been enjoying him with Shark. He is good at controlling the midfield to keep pressure off others and his boosted kick stat means he can be part of the passing chain in turn 1 when receiving and he can help move the ball out to the rest of the team when opponents score.

I can see that when it comes to angel. Salt may be fast but the change to tap in and a lack of the blind utility when it’s needed does make tentacles stand out superior.

when you say pass chain on receiving. Are you suggesting run forward with someone get the ball and pass it to kraken then go the 4 with kraken

or are you suggesting kraken goes up grabs it throws it to the team then he himself goes the 4?

I could see both working I would just be afraid that he would go quick due to lack of support. Then again my views may be skewed as I play against mostly butchers and Brewers.

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By passing chain I mean that where ever the kick-off lands you send someone to collect it and pass back it into the lines to generate an MP. Over the course of turn 1 you then pass the ball down your line through reliable kickers (all of them now potentially) generating an MP each time. After that they move up the pitch to get into position for the next turn. As you pass to the last player who should be Shark, Sakana or Greyscales you use the pass and its MP to make a 4" pass and go dodge to bring them into what should be their goal threat range so that when they activate they can make the goal run.

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Okay I get you 

so in this way you would be prepping for a turn 2 goal which with all the momentum generated should be fairly secure?

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Your opponent will still have an activation and a chance to work over the scorer to generate a nice pool of MP so banking the MP from passes is mostly just to keep things even rather than assure coming out ahead when the turn 2 game plans are picked.

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@Banjulhu

didnt try kraken out but got 2 games in. 1 against hammer masons and another against esters brewers. Received both games and got the chain going it was nice working everyone up the field.

in my first game against masons I got over zealous on a turn one goal ending my activation with 3 inf left on shark :( major mistake which cost me conceding a goal start of next turn as I coulda won the turn if I had just beat on tower a little more for momentum. My opponent beat the you know what outta Sakana then scored with hammer. I threw the ball back in and wouldn’t you know it scattered right back toward hammer. Well next turn rolled around and I couldn’t have that I went first knowing my opponent needed momentum to score I activated siren who dodged a few times to get me some myself. My opponent tried to lay the hurt on siren but whiffed due to cover and charmed. Sakana got up took his parting blow from harmony leaving him at 1 (yikes!) before getting the ball from hammer and laying it down field to greyscales. Hammer retaliated taking out Sakana but was unable to get to grey scales. Next turn saw a fisherman goal and my opponent timing out. Even though Sakana was a major player that game the hag was the reel star (see what I did there :) )

eventually ending 12-6 fish

my game into brewers I brought v siren for the first time and v Sakana. It was nice knocking down Hooper and blinding him. Resilience is a real pain in the butt. Not sure if v Sakana into brewers is good or not. I feel like it is for the extra movement on playbook and bag of coffers to keep the opponent guessing. But not sold on it . Over all this game my opponent spent too much time and resources trying to take down v siren in cover while being crowded out/ blinded by tentacles. Freeing up greyscales Sakana and shark to go goal happy.

Ending with a fishy win 12-0

im really likening vsiren that tacke dodge on 1 is incredible! And dread gaze is amazing.

when do you like to run vsiren? I feel she’s powerful into things that need to beat on you for momentum 

like butchers brewers and to some extent masons that extra dice goes a long way getting through armor and getting that ball. Although it satisfying seducing their striker haha

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I've no hard and fast rules yet on when to take a certain Siren, it's instead mostly a thing I decide on as I'm drafting my team.

The more an opponent chooses to drop down 2" melee models the more likely I am to select oSiren because the vSiren (much like Angel) has a horrid time against 2" melee however if I see a lot of female and non-gendered models with strong melee take out capacity I start to lean towards vSiren.

 

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@BanjulhuOkay I can see that thanks!

 

@ everyone else

i hope others (don’t be shy) begin to post questions and comments here as well. It would be great to get some chitter chatter going :)

especially witn a new season and holidays rolling around. Which I know means free time for some and no time for others. I figure if those with some time can get experiences in. then when those who don’t free up after the holidays they’ll have something to come back to and enjoy  :)  

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I juster learned that

Quote

While a player is in control of another player’s model, that model may not move over obstructions.

oSiren is really really sad. And Corsair almost as much.😢

I think I can confirm The fficiency of Corsair side of the pitch. He just did really well today, even if I need to learn to play faster. Against Mortician especially, which I was thinking would have been a very bad match upCorsair was taken out from the pith with puppet master one time and  was about to a few time, But it is manageable. And when you start to get the upper ahnd, you keep it all game long, as it seems.Just dont miss Tap in goal, especially to have the ball scattering to obulus. 😅

 

 

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@Thyamath

speaking of while moving opponents models. Some of the times the play being used says treated “as a friendly model”

very important for things like hunters trap markers. Making lure great for getting hunters to trip their own traps. Haha

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1 hour ago, Thyamath said:

I juster learned that

oSiren is really really sad. And Corsair almost as much.😢

 

 

 

Does that count for pushes and dodges as well? I only ask because a dodge and a push is not a standard advance. Like for lure and puppet master is says jog which is a type of advance. 

Or would it follow the rule of least disturbance?RAW says generally only applies to ball markers pg10

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7 hours ago, Thyamath said:

You can't push through obstruction. But it said move, not advance, so even with tidal surge, I don't think you can go through  a wall. :(

tidal surge makes the target a friendly model who dodges, so you can move them anywhere.

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It is à friendly model, but is still another player's model...

If that don't work that way, this rule is almost useless since you never control someone else models without them being friendly. I think.

And yes, it is always funny to put Chaska in his own trap. Or teddy bear which is already easy to hit.

 

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14 hours ago, byronthebear said:

tidal surge makes the target a friendly model who dodges, so you can move them anywhere.

No, as Thyamath mentioned earlier, when you are in control of another player’s model that model cannot move over obstructions. Tidal Surge is no exception to this.

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So... Any of you Adapting his team depending on what's the opponent team ?

 

I don't do that very much in S4 (yet ?), even if I think I should. I'm not using navigators yet so Fathom is a distinct case. I guess she could be a very good pick against Hunters, Ratcatcher and Alchemist (and Fillet, probably, even if less needed). But she will a be a very good pick for Shark in any case. I adapt for Blacksmith bbecause of Burnish. I tend to use  vSiren instead of oSiren, because less dependant of her offensive play.

 

In the same vein, which Guild do you  consider a bad match up ? Against which team do you like to drop which captain ? I use to drop Shark in every match in S3, with quite good result (except for fish...). Now Corsair seems a little more fun to play, and I feel like more needed against some team (which are not the same as those which cause me problem in S3, particularly Brewers which now seems easier to fight with Shark). As an exemple, it seems like Silence get more love from Mortician. And I don't think Shark would love that guy, even if he never have been an issue, where Corsair don't really care if he has to do less to let his friends do more.

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I dont think there is any combination of players that goes well into Alchemists or Hunters at the moment. They are just resilient enough to stop Corsair taking them out and drop enough damage and control abilities to keep Shark and company in check.

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Fairly new to Fishermen but played quite a few Season 4 games now and I quite like them. My views on players below.

Corsair: Has been good so far, but certainly the lesser played of my two captains. Generally into specific matchups that Shark doesn't like such as Theron, Obulous or if I think I really need the drag. Been handy hitting mascots if you get the opportunity for an easy Coup de Grace. 

Shark: Still does Sharky things, he's got a few bad matchups but still exerts so much pressure I really like playing him.

Salt: The more maligned of our mascots. I still quite like him for just being a pest. Super fast and a goal scorer if you really need him to be. I really like the change to get over here Angel. becomes nice to slingshot him up the pitch into threatening positions if you want to pressure more of the board after a goal attempt with her.

Tentacles: Just solid, seems very handy with Corsair for the tag along extra tac.

Angel: I like her in some matchups. Especially receiving and I don't want to give up Shark to an really threatening last activation where she can just quite far back on Nimble. Also dragging the otter up the pitch is handy. Can see her being used a lot more with 

Greyscales: As before, just a solid player a frequent take.

Hag: Has been in most lists as a battery and some nice 2" free dodges.

Jac: I haven't used him much yet. He seems a bit compromised with battering ram wanting to be near other models for the movement but wanting to be near the edge of the pitch for pushes. 

Kraken: A good buddy for Corsair, often have them sitting side by side if possible to force opponents placement of models if they want to attack Corsair

Sakana: Mini Shark is fast and generally just good

vSakana: I've just got my hands on him, seems very useful for getting the ball away from castleing up teams.

Siren: Much squishier than her veteran version but with seduced still always has a purpose.

vSiren: I originally wrote her off but she has been great. such a huge threat for getting the ball back. The ranged KD has been handy a couple of times too.

 

I haven't used the Navigators yet but some unsupported takes.

Fathom: Seems such a good model, I can see me taking her with both Captains on a regular basis.

Horizon : More of a corner case player but I can see him coming in against teams who really want to go for take outs and not spread their models around.

 

Went to a tournament 2 weekends ago.

 

Game 1 vs Farmers 12-4

Shark, Tentacles, Sakana, Siren, Hag and Greyscales into Thresher. I received which was huge and I managed to squeeze through the 3 goals in pretty quick time.

 

Game 2 vs Masons 8-12

Shark, Tentacles, Sakana, Siren, Hag and Greyscales into Honour. I had to kick and it became a job of trying to score as quickly as possible. It was all goals and I couldn't shut down a linked activation last goal.

 

Game 3 vs Brewers 12-4

Shark, Tentacles, Sakana, Vet Siren, Hag and Greyscales into Tapper. I received and t1 goal and then a t2 caught in the net should have seen the game finished pretty quickly but I missed the kick. Luckily Vet Siren picked up the pieces shoring up a killed ball and getting another goal. Shark finished when he came back on. 

Game 4 vs Masons 8-12

Shark, Tentacles, Sakana, Vet Siren, Hag and Greyscales into Honour. I made a real mess of this. A missed kick and bad scatter from his ball retrieval let Shark score straight off the bat. I probably should have legendaried to stop shark getting beaten up by Chisel. He scored and killed Shark then I kept the ball safe on Greyscales for a while before putting in another goal. I made a huge mistake where I could have sewn the game up by walking into counter charge range of the Monkey. I should have bounced off things to go get the ball then Net his team down for the turn but chose the wrong options. 

 

I find the Fish still really fun to play and still very competitive (opponents made my list choices a bit too similar on the day though). Losses were definitely down to player error rather than power differences. Definitely bringing them to Steam Con UK for a run out.

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I’ve only got a few games in myself and mostly against hitty teams. Brewers and butchers and masons are my meta haha. Haven’t played Corsair yet because shark has been so good into these match ups.

things I’ve learned 

lure on siren 1 is great against butchers and brewers. Stripping resilience off at range or pulling ox away from the scrum is great.

v Sakana into masons. Oh man was my buddy upset. He was already struggling to keep up and Sakanas black flag really did a number on him. I do recommended avoiding Wrecker though, 2+/3 is hard for some of our players to get around or rather away from.

greyscales has been good at everything easily a toss up between him and believe it or not the hag for my favorite player. His ability to where they go and unpredictable movement plus balls gone is fantastic just make sure you have enough influence on him to move the ball. I’ll kick it into the ground if I have to. Fish as it has been said previously need the ball to live or they die!

this brings me to the hag. Oh man! A squadie with a legendary who operates on almost 0 influence with move shenanigans... YES PLEASE! Talisman and fishers reel have been incredible brewers lock you down? Nope out of there. In a team as fast as ours 2 inches seems small but throw it in a black flagged quick move shark and suddenly you’re running 13 inches plus 2 inch dodge. Requires a little set up but I made a goal from 27 inches away with the use of tidal surge. Shark run 9 black flag +2 quick foot +2 hags 2 inch dodge then title surge +4. Obviously this depends on the hag being within 4 of shark and Sakana within 6 with the 2 of them going b4 but when it happens ohh man! Also hags legendary! I’ve brought the balm up the middle like bait (see what I did there? It’s like I’m fishing) only to use hags legendary push the scrum every which way and score up the middle. The look on a butcher players face when you score through the scrum is priceless.

 

things that hurt... 

a lot of mele ranges changed in season 4 some went up and some went down. Butchers now have a lot of 2inch reach especially when they hang out with their buddy ox. Make sure you spend influence wisely in the match up and it seems silly but in some cases get closer than 2 inches. Nothing like charging in with shark just within 2 to bank some momentum and score when suddenly you’re counter attacked and pushed. Trust me sitting there with the ball next to shank or hooper with 4 influence on you is not a good look.

armor! Sure we have Sakana who I love but high armor targets hurt us in 3 ways. 1 our tac is reduced night as well say “ oh armor 2 ?” “Guess in tac 3” on a tac 5 model I know you still roll all 5 dice which does increase the odds of landing a hit but when you roll like I do it doesn’t matter (bad dice club :)). 2nd it can force us to gang up. Not always a bad thing but usually it’s a better thing for our opponents. 3rd to get around armor and pull off that play you need more hits this more dice so we charge or swing more. In this case the armor influence our own influence allocation. Sometimes leaving a dead ball due to bad dice and influence spent.  Gotta find the Ballance. 

Overall I love the fish this season and I can’t wait to pick some more up. Right now I’ve been forced to proxy!

aleo I am happy to see new posts! :) 

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Bad dice is actually a reason why I like Shark so much : the only result I usually need is on column one.

But even if I dislike armor, 2/3 is usually better for us than 5/0 (or 5/1... Looking at you, vMinx) because of all our play. Also I remember hitting12 times on Velocity before being able to finally get that ball.

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