Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Zore

Gutter help

Recommended Posts

so i am planning on playing a game with season 4 butchers against my friends esters brewer team. my line up i would like to use would be ox, boar, boiler and princess. seems these are just too good to pass by. for the last two spots i was thinking shank since he has more inf and wanted to use gutter. but after reading yesterdays blog it seems gutter does not hold up? so if you could help me with who i should use against a ester brewers or any thoughts? also if anyone can answear the below question : thanks!

 

sweeping charge for gutter, if she is under ox with both the aura does  gutters sweep charge do 3dmg + 2 dmg from aura and benifit from -arm to the ones hit? if this was the case than i think its useful, if not than ya guess there is better options than gutter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sweeping Charge does not get the bonus from the Ox aura. SC is a trait and the aura only affects character plays and playbook damage results.

 

Edit: SC also ignores tough hide 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your influence economy is an important consideration in building your team.

With Boar, you're looking at a 12 INF team. Who are you going to be giving it out to each turn?

Boar 1?

Boiler 3 unless someone is engaged by Princess at the start?

Shank 4?

Ox ?

... if you want to play Ox aggressively then he's going to want the remaining 4, if not stealing another off boiler or shank, so you probably want someone who can act as a battery. Tenderiser is probably the best battery model we have, and you've already got princess and can't take vOx who are our other two.

If you want to play Ox conservatively he probably only wants 2 or 3 INF a turn to throw out butchery and TAT. That gives you another 2 or 3 INF in the team to play around with. If you're going for all-out damage, gutter is actually a pretty good choice, because 2 INF gives her a charge which she can turn into a lot of damage and then not worry about the disappointing follow up attacks. You'll need to make sure she CAN charge each go, but theoretically her role is now as a back up charge-bot.

Other models to consider for this role as a low-INF investment impact activation are ogBrisket for Dirty Knives and snapshot threat, and Meathook (tool someone else up and then hit someone to get snared on them). ogBrisket has the added advantage that if you get a goal with her she ups your INF allowance significantly.

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re Gutter's damage output:

593978078_Gutteranalysis.png.211202fd9d0d51ced9eac3f0e55de766.png

This is a screenshot from a spreadsheet I've been putting together to compare the damage output of different models. This shows that Gutter vs a "typical" 4/1 model has a decent shout of hitting her 3DMG result and an outside chance of a wrap on a spiky roll. This with the sweeping charge (even if you're only catching one model with it) does a decent damage output. The follow up attacks, in contrast, are a bit naff. To compare, Shanks are 1.66, Boiler's (without assist) 2.0, Boar 2.26.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey all thanks for the feedback! i sapose i play more agressivly than conservitive. but from what i gather my line up should be ok? or do i need to replace either shank or gutter for original brisket? i still have alot to learn but i find it hard to score goals and easier to kill models. season 3 tourniment i managed to get all points in take outs. most games i fair well in, however my friend is easily beating me with farmers and brewers haha. just want to make sure i place a decent team at him so if i loose its all on me :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Farmers are a tough match up and brewers can out pace us if given the chance. In both match ups you definitely want to be on the defense and have ball control. 

Another important thing to remember is that ox is a very crucial piece and losing him early can be devastating. I usually don’t commit ox unless j either won the initiative and can take out either another captain or someone got too close to him. Which is why I really don’t give ox much influence or any.

also don’t try to go for an axe throw with boiler a lot it’s good enough just throwing marked target at ppl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

out of the 17 games i played against my friend i only won once to receive. so hard to be defensive if i have to get the ball to kill it. guess ill just through the lineup of ox,boiler,princess,boar,shank, and gutter and let you all know how it went. first time he is playing esters and pinpot so i have the advantage there :p and if you say just give gutter 2 inf and missle her into clean someone up it shouldnt be too different from my season 3 games playstyle (kill everything maybe get a goal)

maybe i can ask you all your advise on what a turn 1 would look like? how do you get your momentum for a turn 2 inititive? most of the time i am to far away to pick out somone. and if i place my models to far up than it just helps the opnent pick out mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

against farmers and brewers you just need to not send in your stuff piecemeal, they may have low defensive stats but they have so much hp that we really can’t be doing that and it’s alright if you just don’t do anything impactful on turn 1 if it forces your opponent to do some risky stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

Your influence economy is an important consideration in building your team.

With Boar, you're looking at a 12 INF team. Who are you going to be giving it out to each turn?

Boar 1?

Boiler 3 unless someone is engaged by Princess at the start?

Shank 4?

Ox ?

... if you want to play Ox aggressively then he's going to want the remaining 4, if not stealing another off boiler or shank, so you probably want someone who can act as a battery. Tenderiser is probably the best battery model we have, and you've already got princess and can't take vOx who are our other two.

If you want to play Ox conservatively he probably only wants 2 or 3 INF a turn to throw out butchery and TAT. That gives you another 2 or 3 INF in the team to play around with. If you're going for all-out damage, gutter is actually a pretty good choice, because 2 INF gives her a charge which she can turn into a lot of damage and then not worry about the disappointing follow up attacks. You'll need to make sure she CAN charge each go, but theoretically her role is now as a back up charge-bot.

Other models to consider for this role as a low-INF investment impact activation are ogBrisket for Dirty Knives and snapshot threat, and Meathook (tool someone else up and then hit someone to get snared on them). ogBrisket has the added advantage that if you get a goal with her she ups your INF allowance significantly.

Ben

Minx is another option for a low-investment influence efficient model. She also sets up for other butchers nicely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

Minx is another option for a low-investment influence efficient model. She also sets up for other butchers nicely.

i dont want to use any union though since they fall off soon, though will be interesting later what cook pieces will fit. i think the list i have is good though to be honest, i may not have a kicker but than the oponent will be less afraid of me scoreing a goal, yet the list is not an issue for an opertunity goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so not only did my list win, but it won with flying colors. he killed shank, and after the 5 kill of his models he called it a game, probably cause my next activation was going to be a goal. so reading up on the rules and changing my tactics from how i used to play and i did so much better. so now thats around 3 wins to our 18 games played. 

i didn't do much with gutter, she killed the ball the whole game and in the end did one charge to do 5 damage on Friday, leaving her with only 1 health, was a great game for me! thanks all for your help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think Brisket would have served you better in place of Gutter? She kills the ball better and has a momentous 2 damage on 2 (instead of 3) with the same TAC (but no anatomical). Plus, she has a ranged character play that: does damage, applies a condition, and lowers defense. And finally, she's better at scoring than Gutter. I don't think Gutter is bad, just that there are better options than her available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2018 at 7:13 PM, arabicjesus said:

Do you think Brisket would have served you better in place of Gutter? She kills the ball better and has a momentous 2 damage on 2 (instead of 3) with the same TAC (but no anatomical). Plus, she has a ranged character play that: does damage, applies a condition, and lowers defense. And finally, she's better at scoring than Gutter. I don't think Gutter is bad, just that there are better options than her available.

in the end i think your right, its just a shame though, i want to use gutter, but i find even if tenderizer was in the game it would have been a better pick. but ya now wiht original brisket imo getting better i will likely use her going forward,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have played a game against Ester, Quaff, vDecimate, Mash, Hooper, Stave, lost 10-12.... 2 resilience, 4 Tough Hide... The aura of Ox is so much important. To remove resilience, I used marked target from Boiler or an attack from Princess so Boiler can come next with her assist. I kicked with oBrisket but she didn't do much (6" for dirty knife is so short). Boiler and Shank have done so much damages. I tried Tenderiser to protect Ox. Finally, I was able to trigger ground pound on a rush keeper charge, offering me Hooper and Ester TO and saving Shank from death. But Tenderiser didn't manage to prevent 2 goal from Mash.

I will try Boar in place of Tenderiser in a next Brewers game. Boar can be good. Brewers don't have so much control. Handle Boar or he will do lot of damages. You handle it? Boiler and Shank come to do a lot of damages. It is a kind of passive control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, garag said:

I have played a game against Ester, Quaff, vDecimate, Mash, Hooper, Stave, lost 10-12.... 2 resilience, 4 Tough Hide... The aura of Ox is so much important. To remove resilience, I used marked target from Boiler or an attack from Princess so Boiler can come next with her assist. I kicked with oBrisket but she didn't do much (6" for dirty knife is so short). Boiler and Shank have done so much damages. I tried Tenderiser to protect Ox. Finally, I was able to trigger ground pound on a rush keeper charge, offering me Hooper and Ester TO and saving Shank from death. But Tenderiser didn't manage to prevent 2 goal from Mash.

I will try Boar in place of Tenderiser in a next Brewers game. Boar can be good. Brewers don't have so much control. Handle Boar or he will do lot of damages. You handle it? Boiler and Shank come to do a lot of damages. It is a kind of passive control.

ya i think tenderiser is best against a team like fish for instance. i really felt i had ot be careful with setup against the brewers or i just get killed. i will admit i had ester charge boar and shank and i did a counter attack, she MISSED her doge, and i also missed my doge...however i did get the push lol all that influence wasted. otherwise there is a good chance she took out boar and shank there. i played such a great game, to be fair it helped i went o the brewers forums and read up on them. seeing how other teams do and the problems they face, so i can than capitalize on those troubles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×