Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
burroboskov

Alchemists Season 4

Recommended Posts

I've played vet Katalyst and Venin as a tag team and the two of them are very effective. 

If conditions are already out there, send vKat in first, as his Fumes character trait is essentially free Intensify. That momentous 4 (becoming 5 with Fumes) is very reachable and 3 of those will hurt. Then send Venin in to finish off, either with Debilitating Strike to hit the higher reaches of his playbook or his Heroic. 

If you need to get the conditions out there then Venin goes in first, aiming for Acid Rain to hand out a lot of Poison, triggering his Heroic and relying on his 4+/2 defences to keep him safe. Then you send in vKat to finish off models. 

Used that tag team along with Smoke, Flask, Vitriol and veteran Calculus the other night to beat Butchers 12-2. 4 takeouts, 1 Vitriol goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m just ballparking, but getting 5 net hits against a 4/0 model is about 36%.  Hitting that three times is something like 8%.  Against 4/1 you have a 14% chance per swing, putting your odds at just about nil to hit all three.  3/1 is about 50% per roll to get 5 net, leaving you at roughly 12% to pull a hat trick.  5/0 isn’t worth even talking about and I don’t see a reason to go through the more exotic defense stats.  Bonus time or Crowding on each swing moves the odds slightly in Kat’s favor, but you need two or more additional dice and a soft target to get above 20% for 3 sets of 5 net hits.

 

So I guess it can happen, but it’s not what I’d call a reasonable expectation for any given attempt, game, or even tournament.  Casual players could play two games a week for a month without an occurrence.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll give vKat a try, since I really love the model. The model that is best suited to setting him up seems to be vKat, as there isn't much KD elsewhere on the team, so getting the higher results consistently seems difficult. Alchemists, as a team, don't seem to do well with setting up Crowd Outs as well, as clustering together too long seems like it could be the death of them.

Which Mascot do people prefer? My gut is that Flask, with beaker keeper, will have the edge.

Also, I was looking at oCalc and vCalc and trying to determine situations where I would want to run oCalc over vCalc. Stacking sticky bomb + fire may be better control than blinding a unit, and there seems to be lots of ways to get models poisoned, so I was initially thinking vCalc would be used more often. Thoughts?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Naja is the mascot if you want more Momentum (give her 1 INF to hit for 1 Momentum and Poison, take the Poison to attack again for another Momentum and then use the Poison with another model for e.g. free charge, etc.)

 

Flask just hands out free INF for a char play which normally means more damage without Momentum gain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Golden said:

I’m just ballparking, but getting 5 net hits against a 4/0 model is about 36%.  Hitting that three times is something like 8%.  Against 4/1 you have a 14% chance per swing, putting your odds at just about nil to hit all three.  3/1 is about 50% per roll to get 5 net, leaving you at roughly 12% to pull a hat trick.  5/0 isn’t worth even talking about and I don’t see a reason to go through the more exotic defense stats.  Bonus time or Crowding on each swing moves the odds slightly in Kat’s favor, but you need two or more additional dice and a soft target to get above 20% for 3 sets of 5 net hits.

 

So I guess it can happen, but it’s not what I’d call a reasonable expectation for any given attempt, game, or even tournament.  Casual players could play two games a week for a month without an occurrence.

 

 

I was hitting Butchers on the floor with assists from Vitriol and Venin, but I take your point. I think I was trying to say give vet Kat table time, especially with Venin, and see how he works on the pitch rather than just using theory. He's a new model and if you use him like you did his previous version, he won't meet those expectations.

Mascot wise... Against football teams I think Naja gets the nod. As somewhere to put and protect the ball, a 2" Unpredictable model with 5+ defences is pretty good! If you're up against an opponent that doesn't overly care about the ball then Flask's free character plays will help you get those takeouts. If I'm not sure then personally I'm leaning towards Flask at the moment, but that may change with more reps!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/11/2018 at 8:17 PM, CaerSidis said:

@Lena what do you like on new Midas? i am unsure if i like him more....

Iunno he feels more like a full character again. The previous incarnation felt a bit too much like a trimmed and neutered version of his old self. Now he just is a full new character again. Sure, he's not the same but he feels deserving of the label captain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

vKat is a beast. I played him in 3 games yesterdayday and had him goining in first each turn. He reliably does 9 dmg to a single target getting the take out and generating 6 mom for 3 INF. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Morganrl said:

vKat is a beast. I played him in 3 games yesterdayday and had him goining in first each turn. He reliably does 9 dmg to a single target getting the take out and generating 6 mom for 3 INF. 

Reliably dealing 9 damage with 3 influence is all well and good but don't you find his 2+/1 statline to be a liability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MechMage said:

Reliably dealing 9 damage with 3 influence is all well and good but don't you find his 2+/1 statline to be a liability?

No one got to go after him, too busy trying to get the ball of of vitriol or Smoke, and getting around mercury. 

He just sat back, went late first turn to get into position and dropped a key player straight away. 

The only time someone caught him was vFang with no INF, so he just baugt the ground pound and walked away. 

He could have been an easy kill, but if anyone went after him mercury and Crucible were breathing down their neck, and I could go for my goal runs. 

To be sure, he won't be seeing play in every match up (hoist and azimuth seem particularly good against him), but against low health teams with out much ranged gb shenanigans he seems fine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Morganrl said:

No one got to go after him, too busy trying to get the ball of of vitriol or Smoke, and getting around mercury. 

He just sat back, went late first turn to get into position and dropped a key player straight away. 

The only time someone caught him was vFang with no INF, so he just baugt the ground pound and walked away. 

He could have been an easy kill, but if anyone went after him mercury and Crucible were breathing down their neck, and I could go for my goal runs. 

To be sure, he won't be seeing play in every match up (hoist and azimuth seem particularly good against him), but against low health teams with out much ranged gb shenanigans he seems fine

 

14 hours ago, MechMage said:

Reliably dealing 9 damage with 3 influence is all well and good but don't you find his 2+/1 statline to be a liability?

Dies hard to butchers. Ground Pound seems like it would be good tech, but it's totally a trap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/11/2018 at 8:49 PM, Golden said:

Is that a good plan?  You’re at 40% to hit the Ground Pound with a charge against a 4/1 target, assuming gangups and crowdouts off set.  Even with bonus time you’re at a coin flip.  And again, that’s assuming you aren’t crowded out.  Lose even one die and your odds fall hard.

Then what happens?  You spent all turn setting up a 5 damage charge.

Meanwhile, you committed your own 4/1 and 14 hp models to a scrum early.  That seems dangerous.

 

I see a character who does just about the same damge whether he charges or not, and has respectable counter attacks and parting blows.   With 2” reach and a 50mil base he’s a mile wide.  So he can eat a charge or initiate a fight without sacrificing much either way.  Is that super valuable, given that all of his durability comes from hp and counter attack threat?  You tell me. 

I played him into a couple of Butcher teams over the weekend. 

You're right, it's a trap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't say trap.

Just like cookies are a delicious sometimes food, Ground Pound is a very disruptive ability that you don't expect to use often.  As I see it, Ground Pound can be hard cast to deal 3 dmg, 2" push, Poison and KD automatically without dice, modifiers, or complications.  That's got some value setting up favorable trades, even if it's not going to be used even a 1/10 as often as simply punching around.  As a playbook effect... Okay, yeah, let's call that a trap.  It requires him to hit 50%+ of his charging dice value.  That's never going to be reliable on any player simply because of how dice work.  You can't plan around it and if you hit it you're more likely to feel bemused than excited.  Sure, that's a trap.

Here's how I see it:  There are only three players in Alchemists who can expect to survive long in a scrum.  Venin, oKat and vKat.  Venin has the smallest footprint, but pretty good damage (for Alchemists).  He's living dangerously though, with vulnerability to anything that bypasses armor, as well as dice spikes (not to mention his suicidal tendency).  oKat has a bigger area of control and fantastic disruption, but only tepid damage.  He is arguably the best tank in faction but he does far better charging around than getting stuck in.  Damage and momentum generation over long fights just aren't where he shines.  vKat has 3  momentous damage on 3 net hits while rolling 8 dice and has melee control of roughly 6" of table.  His durability isn't amazing, but it doesn't suck and he has a threatening counter attack which cannot be ignored.  He doesn't care if he's charging.  He doesn't care if he gets charged.  He doesn't need setup to do his job and can comfortably activate at any point during the turn.  If he spikes his damage or finds himself getting a takeout he'll over perform, but dude's strength is in his reliability. 1 influence is 3 damage and 1 momentum, occasionally more and very rarely less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Golden said:

I didn't say trap.

Just like cookies are a delicious sometimes food, Ground Pound is a very disruptive ability that you don't expect to use often.  As I see it, Ground Pound can be hard cast to deal 3 dmg, 2" push, Poison and KD automatically without dice, modifiers, or complications.  That's got some value setting up favorable trades, even if it's not going to be used even a 1/10 as often as simply punching around.  As a playbook effect... Okay, yeah, let's call that a trap.  It requires him to hit 50%+ of his charging dice value.  That's never going to be reliable on any player simply because of how dice work.  You can't plan around it and if you hit it you're more likely to feel bemused than excited.  Sure, that's a trap.

Here's how I see it:  There are only three players in Alchemists who can expect to survive long in a scrum.  Venin, oKat and vKat.  Venin has the smallest footprint, but pretty good damage (for Alchemists).  He's living dangerously though, with vulnerability to anything that bypasses armor, as well as dice spikes (not to mention his suicidal tendency).  oKat has a bigger area of control and fantastic disruption, but only tepid damage.  He is arguably the best tank in faction but he does far better charging around than getting stuck in.  Damage and momentum generation over long fights just aren't where he shines.  vKat has 3  momentous damage on 3 net hits while rolling 8 dice and has melee control of roughly 6" of table.  His durability isn't amazing, but it doesn't suck and he has a threatening counter attack which cannot be ignored.  He doesn't care if he's charging.  He doesn't care if he gets charged.  He doesn't need setup to do his job and can comfortably activate at any point during the turn.  If he spikes his damage or finds himself getting a takeout he'll over perform, but dude's strength is in his reliability. 1 influence is 3 damage and 1 momentum, occasionally more and very rarely less.

 vKat is a solid player, but against that particular match, as far as I've seen in the couple of games I've played, he's not the way to go. Even hard casting GP is a trap 9/10s of the time against any models with half a set of teeth. The problem is his mobility is in the can now. He takes a full stack to fire GP, so between the fact that you're relegated to a jog if you're not already in the thick of it (handing out buckets of momentum, too, I'm sure), or maybe a Midas pull (which is kinda meh, and requires, I think, holding Midas back a turn artificially to set up), combined with his massive effective range, the other team is going to see him coming a mile away and either preemptively erase him, or get out of dodge and waste your influence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×