Jump to content
Selfy

Corsair S4

Recommended Posts

Hi. No one seems to be talking about Corsairs coup de grace, so I thought I’d knock something out.

Whats the feeling so far? I know not everything is known yet, but I think that having the aura at least means that others (such as Jac) can do the killing, if it becomes necessary and you still get the 3mp.

I would imagine that some will be quite upset about this though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you only kill one model per turn the Momentum loss compared to season 3 isn’t that big. It was only ever really Corsair and the Union pick who generated Momentum through damage anyway and the Union pick would be going away regardless of this change, so you’re realistically looking at a drop in Momentum generated from killing by about 1-2 per round. What you can’t do at all in S4 however is just damage someone to set up for next turn and still gain Momentum from it, and that sucks.

A lot will depend on Corsair’s playbook, if he can contribute other meaningful things that generates Momentum (KDs, setting up the kill through pushes) then we should be good. With some gangups we still have plenty of models that can deal some damage in Sakana2, Kraken, Fathom and perhaps Jac.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would guess 2-2 as a game plan is all but dead in the water because the loss of MP generation as the turn progresses is a massive hurdle to get over particularly as it forces you to pick on just one model and get all the work done in a single turn rather than being able to chip away slowly over a couple of turns which is what the Fish usually have to do given even Corsair only averages 2 damage and an mp per attack at the moment.

From now on I can see Fish having to work to 3-0 against everyone with Corsair and 2-2 being a backup for low resilience teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, taking players out by the side is still a very doable option, so I guess the 1-4/0-6 options is still verry obtainable. Maybe even more since there will be more push and less damage.

 

Or 0-whatever, since the clock usuall tick before all that taken out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until we know what Corsair has become that is hard to guess. Him loosing his momentous damage does not mean he will necessarily pick up more push or dodge options.

If they give him a top end play book non-momentous 5 damage or similar he could still be a good direct take out peice as his new trait would actually remain quite inf and mp efficient (its only a bit crap in light of current fish topping out at 2 damage most of the time)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m guessing he might pick up a new legendary, his current one is kinda weird compared to the rest of his kit. Since they still want him to be able to do takeouts I’m guessing he gets a Legendary that can facilitate that, be it through some more damage or by moving models around. That’s a big theme of his already so I could see a Legendary focused on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/26/2018 at 4:48 AM, Falkman said:

I’m guessing he might pick up a new legendary, his current one is kinda weird compared to the rest of his kit. Since they still want him to be able to do takeouts I’m guessing he gets a Legendary that can facilitate that, be it through some more damage or by moving models around. That’s a big theme of his already so I could see a Legendary focused on that.

I hope not, i really like Corsairs current LP and it's what got me excited to play him over Shark. Even though he is just as greedy with INF as Shark at least his LP and rough seas character play lets him be more of a team player, versus Sharks solo playstyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So one of the things that was on the podcasts so far was the aim to aim to reduce the number of rules on a card and as a result most players will top out at 3 character plays and 4 rules on the back of their card.

That could be massive for Corsair as to get coup dear grace he may have dropped one of his ignore traits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So. Now that we know him. I need some help. Everyone seems to see in him a 3-0 gameplan with a potential 2-2. I see a 0-6 with a potential 1-4. I don't  really see how you're supposed to go for a goal. Well, all the team can, but I don't see how Corsair is good at enabling it, except for the rough seas which is a 12" threat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Thyamath said:

So. Now that we know him. I need some help. Everyone seems to see in him a 3-0 gameplan with a potential 2-2. I see a 0-6 with a potential 1-4. I don't  really see how you're supposed to go for a goal. Well, all the team can, but I don't see how Corsair is good at enabling it, except for the rough seas which is a 12" threat...

I'm kind of in the same boat (no pun intended). I haven't really gotten it into my head when and how to use him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you see him as a 0-6?

He can only output enough damage with a stack of 6 Influence to kill the most fragile of players (13HP and less) and ring out tactics are easily countered by your opponent not being stupid about push ranges

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

How do you see him as a 0-6?

He can only output enough damage with a stack of 6 Influence to kill the most fragile of players (13HP and less) and ring out tactics are easily countered by your opponent not being stupid about push ranges

I don't see him as anything but a control piece. The idea of the drag or Hook Line and Sinker isn't so much to push people off, but to pull them away from their intended targets or into a ganged up situation.

My question is more how do you use him? I don't see him as a damaging character, but I don't see him as a striker either. I'm trying to figure out the best way to use his control abilities to help his team out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, at some point if your opponent want to make some point, he has to come around the border. Especially when the border is about 12" ... (By Corsair alone) Just wait for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Thyamath said:

Well, at some point if your opponent want to make some point, he has to come around the border. Especially when the border is about 12" ... (By Corsair alone) Just wait for it.

I'm not sure I understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Selfy said:

If you don't understand, then what hope do we have? 😂

None. It's the 21st Century, hope was replaced with hollow consumerist tendencies years ago. Incidently, have you considered buying a team you dont yet own. It will make you feel better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banjulhu said:

None. It's the 21st Century, hope was replaced with hollow consumerist tendencies years ago. Incidently, have you considered buying a team you dont yet own. It will make you feel better.

My problem is that I own lots of teams, but can never decide which one to play for any length of time more than about a week. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Siren can lure someone from 17", without any help. Kraken can drag from13" without help. With that you should be able to get someone (preferably which already played, if that require that much work), drag him to your line, farm momentum and get him out first activation next turn. Then you get first and last activation, start with a few momentum, and youhave quite powerfull couterattack. Your opponent has 2 choice, i think. He can try to kill faster than you do. But you are quite resilient and have a lot of control, soft and hard, and if he come close, he help you game plan and you may be able to take 2 player out the same turn. Or he try to stay at range. But considering Siren has a very high range, that's not an easy way, even for dedicated team. I guess Ingineer could try, hunter maybe. not sure they would success so. most of the dodge back give 4", so if you are able to hurt my team i'm able to grab yours. And after that I do at least one momentum per attack. And with all that crowding out, it is not rare to do 2 (or even 3 for Siren and Tentacles). If you kick the opponent can maybe go for the goal. I usually let him, except if I have a very easy way to get the ball back (drag, seduced, rough seas ...). Being fish, we usually kinda know what is denying the ball. So we do that and wait. When you have 8 point, being by killing or by clock, you just go for the Goal, which is not impossible in fish. He can also try and wait for you're mistake.

 

My team is usually like this :

Corsair

Tentacle

Jac

Kraken

HagoSiren (or vSiren, sometimes, but in that plan she has no mz2, she hrow opponent away instead of keeping him close, that's not exactly what I want. But sometime you know your opponent don't have the range to get you, bu has one player you want to control, far from you. But you want lure to go through walls)

I also could see oSakana for the cover if you're afraid to lack of it. The probleme being who to get rid of.

 

 

But maybe my opponent are just not good at facing Corsair. I don't play him a lot, since I always prefered Shark. Still, I played him quite a few time in S3, and he just get better at than plan. S4, I made 0-6 (or 0-X, the clock ticking before I had chance to kill that much) against farmer, butcher, brewer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Thyamath said:

But maybe my opponent are just not good at facing Corsair. I don't play him a lot, since I always prefered Shark. Still, I played him quite a few time in S3, and he just get better at than plan. S4, I made 0-6 (or 0-X, the clock ticking before I had chance to kill that much) against farmer, butcher, brewer.

Wow!

It seems that a brawl ball against Ox or Tapper would be complete suicide. I also don't understand how you can generate enough damage to kill six Brewers.

Crazy impressive! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't generate any damage. I think the only damage result I selected was on hooper because of a wrap and he ignored it 😄(but not the third push it did).

Honestly my Butcher opponent was not first class. He don't play a lot and it was his first S4 game. I just wanted to try Corsair and also would have felt bad to use Shark against him. My Brewer opponent on the other hand is one of the top player around here. But Brewers change quite a lot, especially Ester.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I might as well dive in to the deep end on what is Corsair as far as I can tell

Some of this is a port of what has been said on the FB page but here can be more readily expanded on and better discussed.

So Corsair has a few notable good points:

  • At 18HP with Tough Hide and Sturdy he is one of our hardiest choices.
  • His 4/8" kick makes him reliable at passing, shooting and snap shooting.
  • He has some decent counter attack options which makes engaging him harder work for opponents.
  • Drag, Rough Seas and his legendary are top notch control abilities.

With the good comes some bad.

  • He is slow
  • He has no dodges
  • He has a trait that promotes damage dealing but a playbook that does not.

All told to me Corsair is now a 3-0 model who when the stars align may be able to pull off a 2-2, mostly because it's reliant on your opponent choosing multiple low resilience models and for them to willingly feed them to Corsair.

To expand on that. Corsair's :2: is on his 2nd column and his :3: in on his 4th. With a Tac of 6 in a stand up fight against the common stat line of Def 4+ and Arm 1 with 6 influence Corsair will achieve 12 damage. If he has a friend (most likely Kraken) with 7 dice his 6 influence will do about 13 damage (one KD and five damaging attacks). Def 5 Arm 0 has a better break and with a KD you should reliably do 15 damage with 5 attacks without help from someone else.

The issue with all of this is that there are not many teams that play a lot of sub 14hp models 4+/1 models and/or sub 16hp 5+/0 models and thanks to the drafting mechanism even against ones that do they have the option just to pick their tougher models (Exceptions to this are Fish and Blacksmiths who will always have low HP models because of their options/team build requirements).

As to the idea of getting VP through ring outs, I can not see it being more than a gimmick your opponent has to fall for. And just to make it more a bit more tricky all of Corsair and his team's capacity to pull models in require moves directly towards us which combined with our lack of push-dodge results means the set up puts our own team at risk of being pushed out of bounds as well. Ultimately whilst we have a good number of tools for the setup to me there is just to many moving parts and what ifs to make it a reliable game plan.

So Corsair is not going to be doing take outs often. That leaves him with playing the 3-0 game, but how?

Shark's game works by being able to load him with Inf and then missile him at the goal happy in the knowledge that if he is left alone he is a snap shot threat and even if he is taken out he will still threaten the goal when he returns because of his speed. That generally means you take Shark add ball recovery/control tools of choice and possibly a back up goal scorer and go to town.

Corsair cant do that, yes he has the kick to score but he lacks the ability to threaten the goal well. My assumption is that he is designed to pull people in and hold them down to give you a numerical advantage elsewhere on the pitch. By himself I'm not sure he can actually juggle two models that well but that's why we have Kraken who is now an auto-include with Corsair as far as I can tell. Those two together should be able to drag in three targets and reliably hold them.

But here is where I start to struggle. If Corsair and Kraken are dedicated to pitch control, you only have 3 squaddies slots left to push forward, do ball recovery and scoring and I'm not yet sure which combination of 3 we have that can do that well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thyamath said:

I don't generate any damage. I think the only damage result I selected was on hooper because of a wrap and he ignored it 😄(but not the third push it did).

Honestly my Butcher opponent was not first class. He don't play a lot and it was his first S4 game. I just wanted to try Corsair and also would have felt bad to use Shark against him. My Brewer opponent on the other hand is one of the top player around here. But Brewers change quite a lot, especially Ester.

 

So you just pushed them all off the field? Six players per game (well, six minus the clock, I suppose)? That's maybe even more impressive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lemminkäinen said:

So you just pushed them all off the field? Six players per game (well, six minus the clock, I suppose)? That's maybe even more impressive!

The funniest part was placing KD Mash at the end of the turn to be able to drag Ester at the beginning of the next one, while taking him out. Ester survive and Throw Corsair out in return (almost the only point he was able to take), but she was inside my team, so she has been "dead" by the end of the turn. with speed 4-6, coming back ask for ressources, especially when returning to clause mean getting out again.

 

But think about it. You can drag with siren for at least 4", Kraken 6, Corsair 6. Even if it is not in straight line, the model still made about 16". Take the closest model at the end of one turn, then at the beginning of the next one bring him amongst all your mz2, and gang bang it. That game is not GB for nothing. ^^ You have enough control to chose your target, most of the time. After that you have double push (momentum) on Tentacles, Jac, Kraken Corsair, battering ram, Trident tested and call of the sea. Thatst a lot of push... I think you can stay about 8" away from the border and still be able to push peapople out, even if that would be harder and 4" is usually enough. Hag is usually usefull to stay away from the border when needed to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×