Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
dwhite87

Free Cities Draft -All Butchers Read-

Recommended Posts

The thing is that none of the rookies are going to be more killy than what we already have. No rookie is ever going to be more efficient than Boar or do more outright damage than Perfect Storm Boiler. Which is why we shouldn't be looking for more damage.

What we should be looking at is what we can't do right now.

We can already run a 6 man team of really efficient damage dealers and we've got technical models (Albeit ones that really need a buff to do what we want, like Tenderiser and V.Ox). What we can't do is play the football game around teams that are too resilient for us to properly chop apart. Looking at things like Brewers, Hammer-Counter-Charge-Masons and Regenerate 10 HP per Model per turn Farmers. Against those teams what we need is another way to play the game.

Yes, our football game is never going to be as strong as the fish but right now we barely even have the option to play football. Our two best football models are the veteran and non-veteran version of the same girl and whilst Fillet can play ball, she's got better things to be doing.

Layne gives us the option to run a team that can actually play to the 2-2 game not just well, but quickly.

#SmokedMeat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Selfy said:

Hi guys. I know most of you wouldn’t be worried about this, but in the lore Brisket has jumped ship to the Order, so Butchers need a new striker!

Apart from the obvious ramifications of emotional losing child labour, Layne’s your boy, I reckon.

2

Predictive text! Not quite sure what I was trying to say, but it wasn't that! 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Luthon1234 said:

I’m on board for the #smokedmeat train let’s get our striker 

I'm going to use Brisket led Order to give back to the Butchers. Oh, the Irony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, RTBailey said:

The thing is that none of the rookies are going to be more killy than what we already have. No rookie is ever going to be more efficient than Boar or do more outright damage than Perfect Storm Boiler. Which is why we shouldn't be looking for more damage.

What we should be looking at is what we can't do right now.

We can already run a 6 man team of really efficient damage dealers and we've got technical models (Albeit ones that really need a buff to do what we want, like Tenderiser and V.Ox). What we can't do is play the football game around teams that are too resilient for us to properly chop apart. Looking at things like Brewers, Hammer-Counter-Charge-Masons and Regenerate 10 HP per Model per turn Farmers. Against those teams what we need is another way to play the game.

Yes, our football game is never going to be as strong as the fish but right now we barely even have the option to play football. Our two best football models are the veteran and non-veteran version of the same girl and whilst Fillet can play ball, she's got better things to be doing.

Layne gives us the option to run a team that can actually play to the 2-2 game not just well, but quickly.

#SmokedMeat

I think I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything in this post, sorry.

I don't know why it's necessary that a rookie butcher wouldn't be as killy as boar or boiler.

What we can't do right now is kill fast enough to win by 6 take outs. Winning 2-2 is how butchers tend to win in S3.

When it comes to squaddies we have two strong out and out damage dealers in boar and boiler. Shank and meathook can put out a bit because of the 3 inf cap, gutter is limited by her mediocre playbook. IMO we could do with one more.

Also not being able to do some things well or at all is part of the playstyle of a particular guild. It's perfectly okay for butchers to be built for not scoring many goals.

Butchers have always been trailed as the team that is the best at dealing damage, but the fact that you mention the difficulties we can face against brewers, masons and farmers (which I only really agree that farmers cause us problems, but I'd add rage union to the list) shows that we're not doing what we were intended to. It's the other teams when faced with us should be looking to play the game another way, not us. Hence why more damage output is needed.

Our tech pieces, or control pieces as I'd prefer to call them to differentiate them from support pieces, don't work in S3. We might be able to imply they might improve in S4, but I think I'm changing my opinion that a control piece focused on messing with the opponents ball play might be a useful addition. But 

We already have a 2-2 game. We don't have a 6-0 game. Even knowing something of the S4 changes, I still think 6-0 will be elusive. That's why we need either someone tp slow down the enemy's scoring or speed up our damage output.

Anyway, disagreement is fine, feel free to vote for what you want, but I will never vote for Layne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

trying For the 6-0 is what makes us sub par as a guild imo the creators have really gone out of their way to make sure that take outs is the worst way to win. Now things could change in s4 but I’m not gonna hold my breath I’d rather we gain another striker for lore reasons and to make our line up more diverse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Luthon1234 said:

trying For the 6-0 is what makes us sub par as a guild imo the creators have really gone out of their way to make sure that take outs is the worst way to win. Now things could change in s4 but I’m not gonna hold my breath I’d rather we gain another striker for lore reasons and to make our line up more diverse.

You're probably right that trying for 6-0 is what makes us underperform, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be arguing for a game where all win conditions are on the table.

In season 1 and 2 the game was tightly focused at the 6-0 and 4-1 end of things, with the occasional Shark 3-0 win. In season 3 things seemed to narrow to make 2-2 the "preferred" win state for all teams.

I argue that the game is better if all win strategies are equally viable, and that butcher should be a team that can viably achieve 6-0 wins like they did in S1 and 2. And I would argue to my fellow butchers players that we need an extra out-and-out killer if that is going to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that I would be ok with Layne, but tend to agree with malladin about wanting extra damage output from our player choice.  If a player that has the damage output we're looking for doesn't get revealed in the coming weeks, I think it might be worth taking a look at Kami.  While I doubt her damage output will be through the roof I think there's something to be said for being able to reach out and touch somebody.  Additionally the description makes it seem like she'll be able to strip the ball from players at range to make it easier for us to score a goal, and more importantly more difficult for the opponent to.

With regards to her not liking the butchers, it's not like the guild hasn't dealt with that before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6-0 is something Steamforged have repeatedly said they want to move the game away from since season 1. Even Vet Rage teams tend to 4-1 because, as they've said, the game is Guildball. Not Guild-turn up and shank some guys on a pitch.

17 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I don't know why it's necessary that a rookie butcher wouldn't be as killy as boar or boiler.

Because perfect storm Boiler is the highest output model in the game bar none and Boar is one of the two most efficient in the game. Boiler, assuming he gets his full load of bonuses (Which we all know is tricky at best and unlikely, but still possible) does 6-8 damage, assuming no wraps, per attack, for 24 - 32 damage in a single turn. And that's assuming no wraps, which in all likelihood if you've got the perfect storm off, he's probably getting due to crowd outs.

Likewise Boar gets anywhere between 0 (if he whiffs everything) and 6 momentum (if he hits a wrap on both his charges). There are barely any other models that are so Inf to Mom efficient. (O.Rage comes to mind for having basically the same rules as Boar)

18 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

What we can't do right now is kill fast enough to win by 6 take outs. Winning 2-2 is how butchers tend to win in S3.

I've consistently played the 4-1 game all through the last year and a half of playing exclusively Ox. I'm no star player, but it's just easier. (2 to 4 kills on an Ox Legendary turn, then score to end with Brisket)

Because at the end of the day, it takes far less influence and interaction to score a goal than it does remove a player. Brisket just needs 3 influence (if you've already given her the ball) and to be within 18" of their goal. And in doing so she'll score more VP's than any other butcher does with the same 3 influence.

And trust me, I LOVE going 6-0 when the opportunity presents itself. Ox, Princess, Boiler, V.Gutter, Meathook, Brisket (to keep the ball safe while I do so and / or hilariously deleting people with a 4 stack Brisket on the legendary turn because they think 'strikers can't kill people') are my usual suspects when it comes to playing the game.

But at the end of the day, I don't mind what you personally vote for. As long as you put reps in for Butchers, that's what matters.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, number2648 said:

I feel that I would be ok with Layne, but tend to agree with malladin about wanting extra damage output from our player choice.  If a player that has the damage output we're looking for doesn't get revealed in the coming weeks, I think it might be worth taking a look at Kami.  While I doubt her damage output will be through the roof I think there's something to be said for being able to reach out and touch somebody.  Additionally the description makes it seem like she'll be able to strip the ball from players at range to make it easier for us to score a goal, and more importantly more difficult for the opponent to.

With regards to her not liking the butchers, it's not like the guild hasn't dealt with that before.

I like your thinking on Kami. We'll have to wait and see what the other rookies are looking like though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×