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Balefirestorm

Ratcatcher's hopes for s04

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So we are just over 3 months away from the release of s04.

What changes are you hoping for with s04 to our Guild?

Here's my list:

- All models in guild having some form of dilemma mechanic, and taking the form of a Trait.

- Models in guild getting bonuses interacting with models suffering the Disease condition.

- Squeak getting a buff. Would love to see the rat being a carrier and being immune to the damage from Disease condition. Generally make Squeak a better model.

- Bonesaw getting a buff to at least compensate for all his current weaknesses. Wishful thinking would be seeing him get Fancy footwork, set his Def to 5, and give changes to his playbook and Tac.

- veteran Graves getting a buff to give him something useful on the back of his card. Would actually like to see him having a dedicated role. His front seems like a support model, while his back is only for mascots.

- Miasma's Erupting spores. Models cannot pick a condition they are currently suffering from.

 

 

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I'm not sure ratcatchers will be changed this soon, they might have been designed with s04 in mind, and they are at a good place atm. That said Bonesaw and vGraves should be buffed/tweaked for both guilds, no question there :).

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3 minutes ago, szendroib said:

I'm not sure ratcatchers will be changed this soon, they might have been designed with s04 in mind, and they are at a good place atm. That said Bonesaw and vGraves should be buffed/tweaked for both guilds, no question there :).

I actually do agree with all of the Catchers models except for Squeak. Really think the rat needs a buff.

Also think not having models interacting with the Disease condition is a missed opportunity, since it is the only Guild using the condition.

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No idea but my feeling is RCs won't get changed. I think we can reason they were designed as S4 was designed so probably play tested with that. The only things we might see are a Bonesaw/Graves2 change - but that's more for Morts benefit than Rats. I fear Rats are working as intended.

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Rats are fine and play well however having said that Balefirestorm hit the nail on the head. 

Squeak is for sure my main complaint.  His lack of any interaction with disease seems odd.  I like the idea of Carrier but doesn't suffer from Disease. 

The Miasma thing seems good as well and would make it cleaner but it is not a deal breaker.

Bonesaw and to a lesser extent Vet Graves both need updated.  Bonesaw really needs a buyable dodge, an updated playbook, and permanent defense 5.

Vet Graves could really use +1 tac.

 

Just my thoughts from playing them, truthfully I would be happy with just the 2 Morts models getting updates, but I would be ecstatic is Squeak saw a change.

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I don't want Squeak to get Diseased, because I like the idea of fielding a team without Diseased if I choose.  That said, I've never put influence on Squeak.  I've never thought it beneficial, which is too bad, because Dreadful Shriek is cool, but with Tac 2, you absolutely need a charge to hit anyone with armor.  2 influence is a whole Rataclysm, I'm not paying that to maybe get Dreadful Shriek off.  Predatory instinct helps somewhat, but not enough for me to commit influence to him.  At this point he is a slow, opportunistic crowd out, that I hope doesn't become a momentum farm.

I haven't really tried Bonesaw or Graves in Ratcatchers yet, but that's because the main lineup is so good.  Bonesaw seems superfluous in a team that must take Piper, and has access to 3 die kicks in Miasma and Pelage, who also have a serious beat down capability and passive effects on top of their footballing.  Bonesaw is super capable of janky goal runs, but the in built jank of the Ratcatchers makes him unnecessary, and the other players are contributing to more than just goal runs.

Graves is a little different.  I see him teaming up with Scourge in a scrum in a great way, and not just because of Snackdigger/Gravebreaker.  While Scourge has knockdowns, the one on 3rd is non momentous, and I'd much rather do his momentous 2(+1) on 2nd.  With Graves, you can get reasonable knockdowns (plus Gravedigger/Bleed), and then use Scourge's attacks to get juicy, momentous, high damage results.  The only problem is who to drop.  Miasma helps your Diseased game, has Salve, 2" melee, Rataclysm and Erupting Spores.  Pelage has so much passive damage you don't even need to give her influence (although you should, because she gets work done).  Skulk is the best goalie/striker cover in the game, and can shut down a football team basically by himself.  I don't see the situation where I'd rather not have one of these models just to tee up Scourge with knockdowns.  And I certainly wouldn't want to replace Scourge.  People generally value vGraves for his knockdowns, but Scourge has it on the same column with 2 more Tac, and does unholy amounts of damage.  I need a better reason for taking Graves than boosting the mascot that I already give no influence to. 

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I’d love to see Assist (Vileswarm/Squeak) on VGraves...

That would improve both mascots (and make Vileswarm worthy) and VGraves. TAC7 and +1 DMG makes him a whole lot better.

Squeaks Dreadful Shriek would then be a great play to jog an enemy model to VGraves, with the rat tags along...

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I really like the ratcatcher models and I think they are in a pretty fine place. 

That said. It is no secret that Bonesaw is a bit behind the curve. I personally don't think he is that far off from a useful model. Which buff he could use depends on what the devs envision his role to be. 

I really like vGraves in rats. But his cards back is blank which is a bit boring perhaps. Packmaster could be an passive aura possibly. Then you get his interaction with Squeak a lot more often. 

Squeak is quite a tricky one. Because of how powerful dreadful shriek is. It is not always relevant, and mostly he just jogs around diseasing people, but when the opportunity for it comes it can be really good. Mostly it is his low movement with tag along that makes him a bit clunky. I would really just like tag along to be "towards" rather than directly towards in s4, since "get over here" and similiar is just towards anyway. It would make him much easier to use. 

And considering ratcatchers design definitely were done with at least some consideritation of s4 in mind - I wouldn't worry too much. 

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14 hours ago, Turbopups said:

I’d love to see Assist (Vileswarm/Squeak) on VGraves...

That would improve both mascots (and make Vileswarm worthy) and VGraves. TAC7 and +1 DMG makes him a whole lot better.

Squeaks Dreadful Shriek would then be a great play to jog an enemy model to VGraves, with the rat tags along...

Clean and simple. I like this and it would fit in the S4 mentality of cleaning up the rules. Less names for traits is good.

Someone also suggested to make Bonesaw tac6 somewhere. I like this because it would make Bonesaw unique and also let him get his playbook dodges more consistently despite all the crowd outs from being on a 50mm base.

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37 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

Squeak is deeply frustrating but I think working as SFG intend sadly. He's a nuclear-missile trapped to a mini-cooper...

I don't mean any jab at ýou, but how is Squeak "deeply frustrating"? I guess I just don't see it, or maybe I am just used to mascots that doesn't have very high impact. 

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Because he is insanely slow, gets in the way with Tag Along (directly), is easy to hit, has a powerful but hard to hit CP, and basically does nothing. Mascots are usually good when they do something for free, or when the their active playbook/CPs are good. Squeak has none of these. A slow, 3/1 model that is asking to generate momentum/Character plays (Sucker Punch target) and just get in the way. Frustrating.

Every Guild has a good mascot (Some two), and compare Frelsi to Squeak....I am disappoint son.

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1 hour ago, EpicChris said:

He's a nuclear-missile trapped to a mini-cooper...

I get what you're saying, but it's a bad analogy. The original mini cooper wasn't called the 'pocket rocket' for nothing. It was an absolute beast in a tiny package!

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Ratcatchers in general are cursed with victim defensive stats (Piper/Pelage perhaps excluded), so I don't think he worsens that bit.

But he does do something for free the way I see it. He can re-disease Scourge or disease enemies. His char play can be payed for instead of triggering for playbook, which makes it a lot more flexible than you think, against low def/high arm models for example. 

And drawing an analogy to Frelsi I think is unfair. Frelsi is very much designed interwined with Devana, and Frelsi fits quite thematically as a rather powerful mascot in a falconers guild imo. 

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Maybe Squeak could carry the disease if the were other carriers on  the pitch but not if they were absent?

Yes Chris he is slow, Robin Reliant is probably right.

Likely to fall over if you corner too fast because it has two wheels at the back rather than at the front like the Morgan 3 wheeler.

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I'd be okay with Squeak if it only got a few stat increases, probably 6"/8" movement like Vileswarm and 4/1 DEF/ARM. Maybe an aura in which enemy models clearing conditions keep the Disease condition... or something like Grange's Lend a Hand, I think that would fit thematically.

The model I get the least out of is Miasma, but that's probably because I always try and use her as something other than an Influence battery that also provides Salve, so she keeps getting taken out.

I don't think that Bonesaw provides all that much in his current form and neither does VetGraves, but those two are sure to get some love I think.

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It felt weird that Piper has zero interaction with Squeak: seems like Get over here! [Squeak] would be appropriate (and combined with Tag Along would make him pretty mobile).

Also Carrier while being immune to disease effects himself would make perfect sense, as has been suggested before.

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1 hour ago, bobthebomb said:

At the french national there was a QA.

I remember them saying that stuff released in a 6 months window before the S4 was planned for S4.

Ah well ! Perhaps some tweaks to the rule set with be to their advantage. Like the scoring on a 3+ within 4" of the goal helped Fish more than most.

 

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For all the complaining about squeak, he’s actually a pretty good turn one goal threat. 

Tag along, sprint, pass to him with piper, dodge then reverie is like 24”

feels good to score with him and who cares if he dies then

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That requires you opponent to watch you do it. :)

You are right though in that Sqeak is a decent Reverie target because really any model is and Sqeak is the most disposable one. I wouldn't count on your opponent letting you do it on turn 1, but after that the option is on the table and you don't have to telegraph it as much as on turn 1.

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Yes it does. But there’s no risk except losing the rat until piper activates. If they start throwing models at the rat early, you have at least piper who can go in on them and then most likely scourge. Also, from this point, pelage or miasma should still be reverie goal threats

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