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Hello everyone !!

I have a small suggestion concerning the Game-plan cards. They are already a big improvement over just rolling a dice, but the cards apportionment could be improved.

Present situation : We both Draw seven cards and keep 5.

Proposed change : Drafting the cards

1) We both draw seven cards.

2) both players draft 1 card and give the 6 left to the opponent.

3)Both draft 1 card from the 6 cards you got from the opponent and give him/her the 5 left.

4) Repeat until you have 5 cards in hand and discard the left over.

 

While a bit slower than simply dealing cards, drafting is fast, allow tactical decisions from the get go and guarantee a better division of good cards.

 

What do you think ?

 

/cheers.

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I think this would fit much better within GB's framework, additionally I like the idea of using the entire deck.

As much as it will never really come up, the "when you run out, shuffle and reuse," rule always felt weird. In addition to making that more rare, it also allows players to know what cards the opponent has, but because they will almost always have options throughout the game it means they're rarely able to know what cards the opponent will play because the opponent will never have to play a particular card.

If you're not using the last few cards of the ones you have it's probably because they're the least useful, and by the time you get to your last turns, it's really crappy to have to use the least useful cards.

I still personally prefer the GIC cards in concept because they have more potential to feel like a 7th model to your team but they just varied too wildly in power level.

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My initial thought was that, other than the first card taken by each, if you were paying close attention... you would each know each others hands entirely...which may not be a desirable thing from the intention of the designers.

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I do not like the cards at all

Not that their idea is bad but in 4 games in a row I had only low ones so despite having decent amount of momentum my opponents had all sixes and sevens
It changed game dynamic since they really could choose more of the non momentous plays while I struggled and still started 2nd which allowed them to score

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I don't like the balance of the cards. Both 7's not being -1 inf is not great. Some cards are made for certain guilds or models as well making them detrimental and thus an auto drop if drawn when not playing those guilds/models.

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TBH, I don't like them at all. They do bring some strategizing to the game, but to me this is mainly a distraction. It slows down the game, I much prefer a dice roll and moving on. The extra tactical aspect, to me, brings no extra fun to the game.

 

Grumpy man, yes. 

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I actually quite like the cards. In regards to the balance of them, I also feel this is relatively ok atm. I have played games where I have played 7's or 6's just to get the initiative but in the end I have lost out due to my opponent making better use of the lower inf higher buff level cards. I myself came back from 10 2 down thanks to netting 4 mom from my opponent scoring twice. Could just be the way we play here in wellington where most of our games are quite tight. Decisions are now made around what the card actually means for us in game rather than just inf value.

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Playing Blacksmith my first pass is to discard any -1INF cards the second is to chose all the +1 cards. I look at the initiative score after that.

Then I read the card.

If the -1INF is also a +7 initiative I will probably keep it after all.  You can only throw away so many;)

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I like the system, there are just a few cards I could do without like the 4" dodge, +1 TAC and Shove the Boot in.

 

Also, I think Minor Guilds should just get one or two more cards to choose from and not actually one more card, because when the major player gets all the cards back, the minor player is stuck with the last remaining card, so this is quite the disadvantage in games that go past turn 6.

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4 hours ago, Ruffy said:

I like the system, there are just a few cards I could do without like the 4" dodge, +1 TAC and Shove the Boot in.

I'd rather have all the cards be actually good than make them all just numbers with some trinket text. They'd do better to make the cards with underwhelming effects more useful then just nerfing the effects of the interesting ones.

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5 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

I'd rather have all the cards be actually good than make them all just numbers with some trinket text. They'd do better to make the cards with underwhelming effects more useful then just nerfing the effects of the interesting ones.

I don't consider those interesting, just situationally game-changing... which I'm not sure is the level I want game plans to be at. And yes, I am aware that you have to plan around the cards.

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On 7/6/2018 at 8:01 PM, Ruffy said:

I don't consider those interesting, just situationally game-changing... which I'm not sure is the level I want game plans to be at. And yes, I am aware that you have to plan around the cards.

If they aren't impactful enough to change the game or how you use them, they might as well just be blank. Some of them - Sell It, for example - are pretty much blank as is. I feel like planning your turn around this turn's / next turn's card is more interesting than just 'hope I roll a high number' or 'hope I have a high number card'.

I'm surprised you brought up Kick 'Em While They're Down, since that one is probably the most 'interesting' of the lot. It's very powerful but has real downsides, doesn't do anything without real setup and is something you can play towards and at the same time your opponent can play around it.

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1 hour ago, Gauntlet said:

I'm surprised you brought up Kick 'Em While They're Down, since that one is probably the most 'interesting' of the lot. It's very powerful but has real downsides, doesn't do anything without real setup and is something you can play towards and at the same time your opponent can play around it.

I don't think getting a KD is a great deal of setup.

I don't want to take an extreme position on this as I don't mind playing with the deck, but I definitely see room for improvement in balancing the cards. The level they should be at is obviously subjective.

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10 minutes ago, Ruffy said:

I don't think getting a KD is a great deal of setup.

- Apply a KD to someone relevant

- Prevent the KD from just being cleared

- Prevent the target from just leaving

- Get a squaddie into position to attack

- Prevent the opponent from just killing or disrupting that squaddie

- Play a +2 initiative card without getting punished for it

- Play a -1 influence card without getting punished for it

- Get value out of the +1 damage buff (so, get a takeout you wouldn't have got anyway without it)

 

If you make ~4 swings with the damage buff, you get ~4 additional damage. You know what else could get you maybe slightly less additional damage, but an additional momentum instead? Playing a card that doesn't give you -1 influence, and using that influence on another attack.

KWTD is not an easy card to set up or use.

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That looks like a long list that says very little IMO, a list like this could be made for any game plan card. My experience with the game plans is that the primary deciding factor is the chance for initiative, if initiative is clear or doesn't matter, you go for the actual benefit, but I don't see much effort put into that as far as setup goes, most plans just are a nice bonus. Then there are some cards that stick out because they are not balanced against the other cards. There are also cards I never see because most people simply choose the cards with the highest initiative value.

I would never plan a turn around KWTD and I wouldn't expect this to be the thing to do as far as the overall game plan goes, I see it as a great bonus for teams that have easy KDs.

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I mean, that's the basic default yes, but there is a lot more to it than that with a lot of exceptions.

Hunker Down and Won't Touch The Hair are very useful if you're going second, so it's often good to drop those cards when you expect initiative to be contested by the opponent and they're going to drop a high card, since you get to mitigate their first activation while gaining influence and keeping your high numbers for later.

Some cards are high impact enough that planning a turn around them is just fine. Full Back, Back In The Game, and Get Back In There are all relevant effects which can change how a turn plays.

If the plan text is a nice bonus to you and the numbers on the card are the primary part, why don't you want the text to be made more relevant? Surely that would be the obvious way to make it more of an interesting mechanics, rather than toning down the cards with relevant text and making all the cards functionally blank like Sell It To The Crowd.

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Well, making them interesting and balanced is difficult to say the least. IMO, it is a hard task to find the right mechanic of deciding initiative to begin with. MP + D6 worked fine and so do the game plans. Plot cards were the same level of okay with some exceptions as added depth to the game (not that they had anything to do with initiative, just saying). I don't consider the game plans to be a huge improvement, but they aren't worse either.

My primary concern about initiative is balance, if the process is interesting, that's a bonus. Some randomness has to be involved, too, I guess.

I'm not a game developer and I probably couldn't come up with anything better, just something different. A spontaneous idea would be that instead of game plans, players can buy certain effects for the next round, like +1 to the initiative roll (which is a D6 again) per 2 MOM you spend, or starting the turn with a point of MOM which can be "bought" for 3 MOM, or small boosts for players... or taken-out players returning with full HP, something like that.

An alternative that's more balanced would be both players getting the same game plans.

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9 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

I prefer gameplans plots, I do hope they’re on clock soon. There are some better then others but that’s always the case.

@ForestRambo I too would prefer them on the clock... as would my opponents... because I am old AND slow!!!

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I have won a game because of 'the offside trap' card.  Not a famously powerful card.

My Fisherman opponent needed more time to get his second goal because of this and I was able to take the ball off him. And then when Furnace has popped his legendary, had one favourable crowd out and was in cover, Shark could not take the ball back off him.

Shark was taken out then I scored.

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