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masterkdog

First tournament need to do some theory balling

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Hey all,

I am finally going to make it to my first tournament ever in early July and would like to do well enough to justify the road trip from Wellington to Auckland (will be a big effort involving an 8-10 hour journey in a car with my wife and three kids...).

I have been mostly playing hunters throughout season 3 but want to go back to my roots for this tourney for a few reasons.

1. Butchers are choice

2. Won't have vMinx and Minx no longer available. Nor will my Alt Mataagi be painted

3. I only really use about 7 different hunters players...

I have settled on the following for my 10 but am open to changing it based on trial and error and advice from experienced tourney goers:

Ox, Fillet, Princess, oBrisket, vBrisket, Boar, Boiler, Meathook, Shank and Minx (I don't/won't have access to vGutter).

Had my first training game last night against my mate that came third at US nats. He was using Obby morts. Obs, Pelage, oGraves, Vileswarm, vHemlocke, BP&M vs my Fillet, vBrisket, Boar, Meathook, Princess and Shank.

Game went average as I brushed off my Hunters webs. Scored late turn two with vBrisket to be generating more inf than the morts for the first time ever. Game ended 12-8 to morts and I was feeling fairly annoyed as I could have easily won by just playing the ball a turn earlier.

Anyway, what I was hoping for from my Butchers bretheren is not so much advice vs Morts (have beaten them enough to be confident into them) more I want to get advice on playing into super cagey playstyles. It is not something we really do in the local meta. We are generally pretty aggressive in our playstyle (kinda have to be vs Peter Williams). However since vengeance and his time in the states my friend has been playing far more cagey (translation: hanging back and not really committing much to the game) and it really threw me yesterday. I kept fuelling the tooled up Obulus take out game, first Shank, then Fillet, then he got two goals with the boatman.

Basically no one in his team apart from Obulus and memory made it past halfway (wuss<_<). Given that I fired vBrisket upfield for the goal on turn one (dodge and sprint through fast terrain) I was only able to quick foot one player for the first couple of turns meaning they were all way out of range and he kept it this way all game. Super frustrating.

How do you all deal with cagey play? Do you just shut up shop and play cagey as well. My opponent suggested just holding the ball in my half and forcing him to commit, which I see the value in until I get caught out with the ball near my own goal...

So please, sage advice welcome

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That’s the terrible and hard part of the butcher gameplay.

As we have very little to no character play that deals damages. 

The best solutions I came up with is to have at least 2 fast running player, or to extent threat range (with Boiler or minx) to position your models appart to mitigate range damages from your opponent.

Then abuse your superior threat range and charge in with a robust model and follow up with another to finish off your target.

against cagey opponent Fillet is the default choice for her great def stat and her insane speed. But Ox can manage as well if you manage to lure your opponent into a scrum by moving Ox up the field as a big bait (everybody wants to outfight the Butchers... the fools). Then you make a come back with your team and legendary.

It is really hard to manage this as you have to take risks (I assume you don’t have the ball)

If you have the ball generate momentum by making passes and go out a goal in there and’m try clock pression.

hope it helps.

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So had two games on the weekend where I played the same 6. Smoked the ratcatchers. Boar had an outstanding game, kept vBrisket more central and left my goal run till the end.

Then played the same morticians and, in reality should have won, however I forgot to use Fillets legendary which would have put me on 10 points ball on Meathook no chance of loosing it able to walk into tap in range and bonus time a shot.

Lesson learned, be more calculating with my VP requirements.

I am thinking of dropping Shank out to give vOx a run in my game tonight, just to see how he goes (I used to get work out of him)...

So question is, how do I get the best out of vOx?

And does anyone ever have him in their 10? Who do you take him over?

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Vox is imo worse than tenderizer atm. But you can get some use out of him by using him to tie up multiple models, unless they have good damage or damage buffs. Lash out can be nice and his heal makes him tough but any dedicated killer can end him pretty easy. He's in a rough spot. 

 

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You should keep Shank, he is insane at going places and you need that lovely gangin up bonus for Fillet and company.

He requires some handling but he is quite good to recover balls or tacling from affar. 

vet Ox is not fantastic, useful in niche situations, he should perform well against Blacksmith and such but veteran Guter is a far better choice now.

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Yeah these are all things I have tried and tested in the past, Shank will always be in my 10 and normally in my 6. I unfortunately won't have access to vGutter and was thinking more along the lines of a situation where I catch opponents off guard by using vOx in some odd unexpected manner. So will try see if I can generate a couple of these.

Fairly settled though on the 10 I have (even if I'll only ever likely use 6 of them like the great Peter Williamson). Although with the delay of Falconers it may see me shift back towards taking my Hunters now that I will still have access to oMinx...

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Keep up posted with your results if you can :) I always love to read feedbacks on my favorite guild.

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Have had a few more practice games over the last week or so. Still can't settle on a preferred lineup but getting there. Have been punishing the rats with Boar but found my game was revolving too much around him so switched him out in the last two match ups for minx and then last night for Boiler (who I haven't used since season 1!!).

Game with Minx was a mixed bag of a game that I couldn't finish as I was playing truant from work and had to go pick up the kids from school. Got my first taste into vDecimate though, handled her OK (her and fillet took it in turns to take each other out). Found I got good traction out of using Fillet to set up an extra long charge with Meathook a couple of times through smell blood, people tend to forget she has it (I know I sure did) then charging the ball carrier and heroicing (both times it was vDecimate and she was going to be the last activation). This is something I'll play around with a bit more this weekend.

Played Ox into Ballista last night. Had been pre-warned about tooled up sucker punches from Hoist and played around it pretty well. Won in the end 3 goals one take out to 2 take outs. Took Ox, Princess, Boiler, Brisket, Shank and Meathook. Boiler Meathook hold up the centre well together Shank and brisket opposite wings and Ox going where needs to. Fairly standard sorta stuff but liking it again.

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So I've been using a cagey strat with butcher's for awhile and so far I haven't had a opponent able to deal with it, though I have not used it against farmers and I don't think it would work against them. 

So the line up is fillet princess boiler decimate meathook and either boar, shank, vgutter,  or briskets. You can kick off or receive it doesn't matter though receiving is stronger, but you basically buff fillet with all the buffs send her out throw pain circle then retreat into your lines super easy and forces your opponent to come to you.

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Well here is the rundown of the tourney. https://www.longshanks.org/events/?event=1116 took me the rest of the week to drive back down etc.

Fairly pleased with how it went (minus the last thirty seconds). 

First up vs Kick off Masons I ran Fillet, Princess, Meathook, oBrisket, Boiler and Shank. This was a pretty fun game and I had a chance to finish it earlier but Brisket fluffed a bonus timed super shot from 4.5" out by rolling 1, 1, 2, 3, 3!!!! Fillet picked up MVP by managing to get 10 out of 12 points. I also had a moment in the game where all 6 masons were bleeding :D.

Second game vs Morts was a great one. Scalpel, Vileswarm, Silence,Pelage, Ghast and Graves. I played Fillet, Princess, Meathook, vBrisket, oMinx and Boar. The game was great with me pulling ahead early and my opponent coming back with some great in out take outs from Scalpel. Ultimately it came down to the initiative (which was a dice roll after cards), I won it and vBriskit walked over and took out silence and had enough left to slot a goal as well (if it was necessary).

Third game was an odd one for me. Playing into Esters, Quaff, vDecimate, Friday, Spigot and oHemlocke. I took, Fillet, Princess, Shank, Boiler, vBrisket and Meathook. I started poorly by standing Boiler, Princess and vBrisket side by side which Esters just loved and so too did Hemolcke... Luckily I managed to play cagey enough the rest of the game to edge ahead for a bit and heal them.

Now going into this round, me and my two regular opponents from Wellington were the only players who had gone 2-0. This being my first tournament I did not realise the significance at first of winning, and therefore forcing a tie break with the winner of those two (and a fourth round for everyone else).

Anyway back to the game. It got super tense at the end and my brain went to mush with the possibility of another win and ended up with me making a couple of basic mistakes (not healing players etc) and my opponent clocking out. It was 11 all and he managed to jiggery pokery himself to a spot where he was able to take out Princess (one of the players I forgot to heal <_<) and he picked up the win with about 15seconds left on his clock.. 

All in all fun tournament for my first ever outing. Also please that the other Butcher player managed to pick up two wins as well and keep the great guild in mid pack with me ^_^

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