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Stephen78

Lightening reflexes vs dodge 0"

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I realise that this has been answered in this thread: 

 

 

However, i believe that the assumptions used for this ruling were incorrect and wanted this clarified as it comes up often in games. I believe that this was ruled based on assumptions for things like minefield and things which require movement of one form or another into, which this does not.

 

Lightening reflexes state it takes effect when "an enemy model ends a dodge within the aura". A dodge of 0" fulfills the criteria to trigger as it has ended within the aura and the criteria does not state any requirements around moving/advancing.

In my game on stream at Vengeance my opponent triggered a push/dodge result, pushing me and dodging 0" to avoid this based on the previous ruling.

 

Could this please be re looked at?

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I think the tricky word in Skulk's rule is "ends". If a dodge "ends" somewhere, does that imply that the optional reposition move from the dodge has been taken? Or does the dodge end in these cases when the optional move is declined?

Looking at the rulebook for the wording of dodges and selecting playbook results, and at the timing charts, I can't see any reference to anything that would "end" other than a move as a result of a dodge. As a result that would suggest the original ruling is valid. The movement from a dodge is optional 'the model may make 1" of dodge movement for each arrow shown on the playbook result' (p35), hence you can choose not to take the move, and so nothing would "end" to trigger Lightning Reflexes.

Its a bit slim, I'd admit, but its how I'd rule it as TO if it came up at an event I was running before there was an official ruling on here.

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I also found this thread which unfortunately doesn't seem to address the (same) question either as the answer given is again around "movement". 

 

And whilst i understand your point Ben, i believe the distinction here is the difference between moving and ending which hasn't been covered previously due to the wording on this rule.

You elect to take a dodge of 0". As you havent moved this doesn't trigger traps and anything that triggers from movement. Which has been ruled previously and is consistant with wording for the triggers on those rules.

Lightening reflexes however triggers from ending the dodge which you have done, as you have selected the dodge result and a dodge is from 0 - 1" depnding on the amount of >s. It is irrelevant the distance or lack of moved as long as the model ends within 6".

 

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Online rulebook, page 35:

:D:Dodge – The active model may make [1”] of Dodge movement for 
each arrow shown on the Playbook result. Combine all Dodge results 
from an Attack into a single Dodge movement.

 

Keyword being "may". Your opponent was not required to dodge after selecting the result. It sounds like your game was played correctly.

For clarity, a dodge playbook result enables the player to make a dodge reposition. Lightning Reflexes triggers when a dodge reposition ends.

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2 hours ago, Henry said:

Online rulebook, page 35:

:D:Dodge – The active model may make [1”] of Dodge movement for 
each arrow shown on the Playbook result. Combine all Dodge results 
from an Attack into a single Dodge movement.

 

Keyword being "may". Your opponent was not required to dodge after selecting the result. It sounds like your game was played correctly.

For clarity, a dodge playbook result enables the player to make a dodge reposition. Lightning Reflexes triggers when a dodge reposition ends.

If a player elects to not dodge to avoid Lightning Reflexes, as oppose to dodging 0", does a momentous :D: generate momentum?

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1 hour ago, MilitaryCoo said:

A Dodge of 0 inches will not trigger Lightning Reflexes.

As an aside, there is no e in lightning. Lightening is the process of making something lighter.

 

Thank you for correcting me on lightning vs lightening, duly noted. Typing in the spare minutes between other tasks on my phone but no real excuse.

 

You have been consistant in stating that a dodge of 0" does not trigger lightning reflexes however i am trying to understand a rules basis for this decision rather than just the statement as all previous posts have related to movement in one form or another.

 

Further, 

3 hours ago, Henry said:

For clarity, a dodge playbook result enables the player to make a dodge reposition. Lightning Reflexes triggers when a dodge reposition ends

I am in full agreement with this, my contention is that a dodge reposition of 0" fulfills the criteria when it ends within 6" to trigger as a dodge was taken even if there is no movement. There is no stipulation in distance or any movement as a trigger for this trait.

I apologise if I am labouring the point, and im certainly not meaning to come across as argumentative but the key part seems to not be answered in any previous responses. 

 

 

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Just noticed an interesting interaction with another rule that's related to this question.

Please note this as checking for now...

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