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Well the prevailing opinion is that Bonesaw is terrible.  I am going to try a couple of games with him in my line up to see how bad it really is.  

Here is the line up I am thinking about:  Piper, Squeak, Bonesaw, Scourge, vGraves and Skulk.  

General strategy:  Trying to go for a 2-1 win - either 2 goals & 1 take out or 2 take outs & 1 goal via Gravedigger & Snack break.  

Thought:  This is definitely an skew list designed for a quick turn 1 goal using Bonesaw, then use Scourge & vGraves for take outs.  It is meant to play fast, taking advantage of the speed of Bonesaw, and our ability to get extra points from take outs.  

 

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I think he’s great (if a bit tricky), so that’s my bias going into this. And it’s pure theory.

I think he’s capable of scoring using the rats KICK stats, letting Piper do other things instead of Reverie him. Of course, if he then happens to have the ball later he’s a great reverie target - after that first goal DEF6 vs parting blows probably means tackling someone and not running off (for whatever reason) still means he’s probably got a chance of walking off and scoring under Reverie. 

I personally wouldn’t bother using Piper’s efforts on Bonesaw unless my goal run had fallen apart, which then let’s the other parts of the team get their goal threats amplified. 

But like I say, I’m guessing ;)

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3 hours ago, mr baron said:

Well the prevailing opinion is that Bonesaw is terrible.  I am going to try a couple of games with him in my line up to see how bad it really is.  

Here is the line up I am thinking about:  Piper, Squeak, Bonesaw, Scourge, vGraves and Skulk.  

General strategy:  Trying to go for a 2-1 win - either 2 goals & 1 take out or 2 take outs & 1 goal via Gravedigger & Snack break.  

Thought:  This is definitely an skew list designed for a quick turn 1 goal using Bonesaw, then use Scourge & vGraves for take outs.  It is meant to play fast, taking advantage of the speed of Bonesaw, and our ability to get extra points from take outs.  

 

Good luck. When he works he is great. And you wonder how you managed without him. But the rest of the time!.......

It will be interesting to see how you get on with him. 'Go for the knees' & 'Stick to the plan' might help.

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I have won the last 5 games I played Bonesaw, and only 1 out of 3 games I played without him. This includes my games at the Spring Fling. I don't remember the record for games I played before the Spring Fling because I started paying closer attention there (because of people saying that Bonesaw was terrible). In all but one of those game Bonesaw definitely contributed, and won me at least 2 of those games.

By won me those games, I mean he did things in those games that no other player could have accomplished in his place that got victory points that allowed me to win.

It is very easy to get a first turn goal with Bonesaw, especially receiving. He can sit on a flank and get the ball from Piper and get reveried up as the second to last activation, where the opponent player cannot get to him, and then go up and make a guaranteed* goal by running and meditating from wherever he was. Football Dervish allows him to get goals that no one else can, and ratcatchers have the kick stats to pull that off.

Now, having said that, I don't play usually him kicking. Being 4/0 makes him a liability. If you don't receive the ball then I have found that you have plenty of time to get players into positions to score with anyone by the time you get the ball. (That is also true of goals after the first turn in a Bonesaw team, but Bonesaw is the easiest to get a first turn goal with.) I also don't play him into Theron since snipe/pinned can shut down that first turn goal.

Could Bonesaw be better? Of course, and I agree that he isn't a superstar most of the time, but I've gotten a lot of use from him recently. And that is mostly due to my willingness to put him on the table and figure out how to use him. My underlining point here is don't let people tell you that you can't use Bonesaw, that you will lose, because I win with him more than I win without him, so he must be making a difference.

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I think Bonesaw is fundamentaly flawed, he is a risk reward model where the risk is higher than normal but the reward is the same.  He also is fundamental to Rats and as far as flavor he fits perfectly. I've already had a few bonesaw flubs to lose games but he is incredibly fun and funny so what you gonna do. When he works he WORKS haha.  

 

For your 6 I would swap Graves or Skull for Miasma depending on the opponent. Miasma really enabes scurge they are my favorite duo in the game. Miasma can clear off all of scurge's conditions. Throw some rats then walk over to her best buddy and and re apply disease for his big show. 

 

Tldr; I wish I had another option but I think Bonesaw is a nessesary component of rats just cross your fingers and toll the dice! 

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He's been a staple of my Morts teams since I was released! 

He's only Devirshing once per game, so the risk is reasonably low, after that he's smashing scrums apart and scoring whenever he gets the ball. I've not tried him in Rats yet, but I bet he's getting 8 points per game. 

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3 hours ago, CurlyPaul said:

He's been a staple of my Morts teams since I was released! 

He's only Devirshing once per game, so the risk is reasonably low, after that he's smashing scrums apart and scoring whenever he gets the ball. I've not tried him in Rats yet, but I bet he's getting 8 points per game. 

This. So much this. He doesn’t need to dervish often. 

Been playing him with rats and I like him I’m the middle for kick off. Piper reveries him up and he threatens a big section of the board. Wait until the Ball is on an easier to hit model and charge away. Works even better if you can manage an early goal with piper as well. Charge for 2 (he should hit one of his tackle results), mediate, shoot.

 

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I’m afraid this just doesn’t work in real life. An opponent that Def stances and counter attacks Bonesaw leaves him with a 50/50 chance to Tackle and then have it tackled back because he is 4+/0. Worse his giant base means crowd outs are likely. And finally that giant base means he’s hard to manoeuvre. 

I love the concept of Bonesaw. But on a 50mm base and receiving no benefit from it, combined with crap TAC and rubbish playbook (all the things a Striker wants to do are not momentous) means he is awful. SFG can’t fix the base issue but they could give him some sort of benefit for it and maybe give him close control or acrobatic or you know anything that resembles striker tech. 

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Keep his playbook, give him 6 Tac, and Acrobatics and I think we have a striker people might play.  His playbook is not that bad, his Tac 4 is what is bad. 

Make him a high Tac striker.  He is very limited on his dodges because of his big base so it is harder to exploit.  His momentous damage is high so pretty unlikely, and again not abuse-able.  But it would allow him to get that Tackle double dodge off.  It would allow him to escape with Acrobatics, or mitigate his 1" reach a little. 

Basically he plays like Velocity, but her playbook results are lower and better, and she is more survivable.  

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The only instance I would include Bonesaw is if I had already accepted defeat. In this case he's a desperation pick hoping that everything comes up lucky for me.

Unlike the good TAC 4 strikers his ball threat tops off at 9" (without assistance of buffs Flint can threaten a ball 13", Velocity 11", Friday 11", Mist 12-16") not helping is 9" is the maximum threat on ball within the rats besides a couple of plays by Piper. Then he doesn't do much of anything without the ball. So him, Angel, and to a lesser extent Bushel and Egret (though at least they can do damage) just paddle the sad striker boat until season 4 potentially saves them

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His inability to deal with unpredictable movement is a nightmare. Most strikers can deal with it through buyable dodges or 2”. Friday and Angel are in same boat but at least they have better defence and other options for use. Bonesaw without the ball is never getting it beyond some lucky dice and your opponent not killing it properly. And without it he’s bobbins. 

I hope s4 fixes him. But I fear SFG are happy with him. I mean he was already retooled in S3. 

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2 hours ago, Mantanza said:

 

Basically he plays like Velocity, but her playbook results are lower and better, and she is more survivable.  

And she's made of wood.

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OP- don’t listen to the internets negativity. He isn’t flint or velocity but I’ve had good success with him in morts and will continue to try him in rats. After 30 games, I may drop him again after I’ve seen myself it doesn’t work. 

Play what you want to play. 

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4 hours ago, Mattyg2787 said:

OP- don’t listen to the internets negativity. He isn’t flint or velocity but I’ve had good success with him in morts and will continue to try him in rats. After 30 games, I may drop him again after I’ve seen myself it doesn’t work. 

Play what you want to play. 

Couldn't agree more.

 

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In two of the three games I've played I could have scored goals that now where out of reach with a 16" Reverie instead of the 14" I had available. 
Still won't be using him much though.

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Bonesaw can be useful, but it requires 2 things:

1) He scores a goal asap during turn1.

2) You have the ball.

He is one of the models that need a real lookover and some proper rebalancing.

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1 hour ago, Balefirestorm said:

Bonesaw can be useful, but it requires 2 things:

1) He scores a goal asap during turn1.

2) You have the ball.

He is one of the models that need a real lookover and some proper rebalancing.

3) Luck. Football Dervish is luck trap. :)

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25 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

3) Luck. Football Dervish is luck trap. :)

yeah. Forgot that last one. Never had a chance of using it yet. My opponents are usually clever enough to make sure I can't use it.

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Making sure that I need to take 1 parting blow or that I can't place him in range of the goal.

Against Fish 1/2 successes on the Parting blow is enough to steal the ball.

So counter placement.

The problem for Bonesaw, is that the 50mm base is not to his benefit, combined with only having Tac 4. If he'd also have Rowdy, that'd be different.

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For Rats he is a usual Auto Draft if I receive. I have had good success with Reverie or bouncing off Piper/Pelage/Miasma.

Play what you want to play. The only match ups I typically do not like him in is against Brawling Teams. For those I try to load up on all the 2in Melee snce we do have some decent counter attacks across the board.

I do hope he gets a small tweak to make the dervish run either cost less MoM or make his heroic... useable? I think I have never used it.

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I’ve used swift wind twice, once when honour was standing in his way to block him scooping up a free ball (swift wind and second wind let him snatch it up and deny an easy goal from miles away), and once to charge someone, dodge through their base, and end up in range of a shot. It’s definitely not an every game trick, but sometimes it’s just the shenanigan you need. 

I’ve still scored off failed dervish runs before (once with two failed dervishes, thanks to some lucky scatter) and I can see it being useful there at times, though I’ve never needed it for that.

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Still getting up to speed with rats, but I've played a decent amount of bonesaw in S3 morticians, and I'm starting to get the feel of the rats after half a dozen games or so.  Let me start with somewhat agreeing with the negative voices here.  Bonesaw isn't great, and probably deserves something to bring him up a bit.  However, he's okay with rats in a way that he wasn't with Morticians I think.  Certainly not an every game drop, but he does some things for rats that are pretty good.  Piper is your main ball retrieval, so I don't think bonesaw needs to get the ball that many times since Piper covers an enormous amount of the pitch.  Football dervish is also not necessary for rats, so it becomes the once a while back pocket play it should be.  What he does give you is a good first round score that doesn't bury someone super deep, being the only long range kick in faction.  Once he is base D5, he can walk out on a lot of models without fearing the knock down, which leads to some interesting reverie plays.  I find often, any models left in obvious reverie range get bodied, so you often either can't risk the kick to the model, or can't risk the walk away because of tackle on the opposing model.  Or, the opposing ball carrier is out of range of a convenient kick to a friendly after Piper gets the ball off of them.  In a few of these cases, I've kicked to space, and then used the reverie sprint to pick up the ball on the way to the goal.  Pelage matches bonesaw's movement, and has a smaller base, but Bonesaw has a better Defense on parting blows assuming he has already scored and his kick stat is more forgiving if the kick scatter isn't ideal.  So he still isn't a great model, but I think he is better in rats than I found him in Morticians, and I suspect he'll see the table a bit more for me.

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Does anyone remember why Bonesaw was given a 50mm base for a 'little guy' striker? Was there ever a design statement on why this was done - or was it 'hey - this'll be hilarious' moment from the design team? The only 'synergy' I see is greater exposure to Unexpected Arrival. Other than that it seems a massive hindrance. I think I'd like to see better synergy with his base size - maybe the Long Legs trait at least. I mean Swift Wind is actively hindered by the base size!

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4 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

Does anyone remember why Bonesaw was given a 50mm base for a 'little guy' striker? Was there ever a design statement on why this was done - or was it 'hey - this'll be hilarious' moment from the design team? The only 'synergy' I see is greater exposure to Unexpected Arrival. Other than that it seems a massive hindrance. I think I'd like to see better synergy with his base size - maybe the Long Legs trait at least. I mean Swift Wind is actively hindered by the base size!

Rule of cool I think, to accommodate the stance.

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