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el009

Season 4: rebalance of Spooks

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I'm quite excited to see Ghast gain an influence. He was on of the reasons I picked morticians in the first place and he is ever so much fun to use bit the 1/3 influence could make him a tough sell sometimes. And basically made it very unlikely you would ever run both him and Casket. However I'll feel much better about putting him in a bunch of lineups with his new 2/3 influence stat.

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Bonesaw being more reliable is huge for me. Now he's at least decent. Stamina, 5+ def all day, meaningful counter attack (:momPD: on 2 hits!), meditation lasting entire turn... He's solid turn 1 goal threat and snapshot turret. If we get another aggresive football player (Edge or Layne) we can score for days.

I'm not convinced by vGraves. He's fine as a setup piece, KD+ -1ARM on 2 hits is great but unless You play also Vileswarm I'd rather take Ghast since he's 2/3 inf.

Dirge is cool, still super fast but also tougher, able to hit SO without charge and with 2/4 kick! Launching him towards the goal post with tag along might be fun.

 

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Had two games with updated Spooks vs Masons and Farmers. New Bonesaw is nuts and Scalpels chews through armored targets in no time. 2/3 Influence on Ghast makes him more competitive pick. Our players are still insanely squishy but now we can fight back and score! I'd like to have one more football oriented player form the drafy so Layne or Edge are the guys I want!

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@el009 I’m very interested to hear about bonesaw, for you to have such a good opinion he must work well but I’m not quite seeing it yet - what’s his new plan, his strengths and weaknesses? :)

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I'm really happy with all the changes, but I am a little disappointed in Bonesaw.  It seems that in order to make him work, he had to sacrifice a large part of his uniqueness in Football Dervish.  I was curious to see how Dervish might be effective with tap in passes, but that's off the table, now.

With that said, 10/10 to the designers, I am genuinely excited to use every single model on the team.

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9 hours ago, The Ferryman said:

I was curious to see how Dervish might be effective with tap in passes...

I suspect that in combination with Stamina... too effective.

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14 hours ago, Mako said:

@el009 I’m very interested to hear about bonesaw, for you to have such a good opinion he must work well but I’m not quite seeing it yet - what’s his new plan, his strengths and weaknesses? :)

Bigest things for me are 20'' built-in threat range (even more with plot cards!) not depending on rolls and being far less MP starved. Now he can do stuff on his own - start the activation with the ball and 0MP, charge through models, generate momentum and score easily with meditation being crazy snapshot turret.

:momT: and :momPD: on 1st and 2nd row with TAC5 are also solid, now he can disengage with counter attack (not super reliably though).

His 'perfect christmas scenario' might not be that appealing anymore but our crazy monk is far more independent and reliable now. 

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I think the stamina on Bonesaw means he isn't trapped by a 2" melee model on the 'wrong' side of him when he wants to go for the goal. He can split his movement into 2 sections.

Does Silence's ability that means he can choose how much INF to pay for his character plays mean he can put down the fire AOE for the cost of 1?

Scalpel will murder the world!

+1 INF on Ghast. "Nice" :)

We now have 2 mascots! vGraves can give Vileswarm 2INF for 1 MP! An excellent trade as they should generate ...... well more than 2 MP as well as a fist full of damage. In a beater team they look like a good combo.

Get the rats & Memory in a crowd and then charge in with Ghast, 'unmask 'and there will be bits of poisoned rat, puppet and the opponents team spread to the winds!

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On 10/6/2018 at 7:42 PM, JacctheInsomniac said:

I didn’t realize Cosset lost Crazy, which makes me feel very conflicted. It might have been overkill most games, but it was exciting. Back to the Shadows is huge, no doubt about it. But... man I dunno, there really isn’t anything in this game like rolling 12+ dice on a length 5 playbook.

But now you have reliable TAC 6 for counterattacks without waiting to activate for crazy and it's all in all a -1 TAC for not damaging herself AND a nice dodge to cover... after a charge. That's sold me Cosset, because she was so fragile, that I didn't like to play her. And even with Second Wind at Scalpel I didn't wanted to bind Scalpel near Cosset for that.

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1 hour ago, TanE said:

But now you have reliable TAC 6 for counterattacks without waiting to activate for crazy and it's all in all a -1 TAC for not damaging herself AND a nice dodge to cover... after a charge. That's sold me Cosset, because she was so fragile, that I didn't like to play her. And even with Second Wind at Scalpel I didn't wanted to bind Scalpel near Cosset for that.

Yeah, combine that with Tag Along Dirge. Now that bloody bird follows our crazy lass requiring no previous setup to use Assisted. And after she's done with a poor guy she can disengage with 4" dodge leaving him in Dirges melee zone so he can't charge... Bananas :D

She's still 4+/0 and 12 hp though. Chisel deletes her in one activation with no external buffs...

 

I'm not convinced by VGraves and Swarm though. B&M might also be benchwarmers this season. We'll see...

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I played 3 games this weekend into S4 Cogs and Order.

First off the bat, I've been testing Scalpel a lot since her leak a few weeks ago and the reps are starting to really show. I absolutely love kicking off with her as her pressure is immense with the free MOM to start.

I tested the following 6 just to see mainly what Ghast and Vileswarm brings on their own.

Scalpel/VSwarm/oGraves/VHemlocke/Ghast/Bonesaw.

Games 1 into S4 Engineers playing the Ballista box. (He needed to get back to roots while trying to piece the cogs together.)

Games goes 12-0 for me by the middle of Round 2. 3 Goals 2 by Scalpel and 1 by Ghast. 

Scalpel kicks out and Ballista retrieves. He fails to dead bolt Scalpel and kicks back to Velocity. Scaplel runs around Spirit Bombs Velocity and Salvo around. Knocks off Close Control Tackles again. Hits Mom 2 a couple times and pushes herself into goal range and scores. Ball goes out to the other side toward Mainspring. Oppponent tries to set up Colossus with Overclocked and Tooled up to bring the pain to Scalpel but whiffs the attack. (He literally went and bought new dice after the roll). 

Turn 2. Scalpel knicks the ball off Salvo and scores on first activation of the Turn putting me up to 8-0. Kicks out and the ball ends up on Velocity. He goes after Scalpel nearby with Ballista and generates a little MOM. Ghast looks at Velocity and KD her on the first hit. The ball scatters toward my opponents goal. Ghast sprints over and is within 6. He bonus times and kicks on the goal closing the game. Since the game was over so quickly we reracked and played again.

Game 2. Morts vs Same Eng line up. Game goes 12-6 for the Morts. This was a better game for my opponent since his dice seemed to roll at least average. This game I don't recall as well but I finally did get to use some sillyness on VSwarm. Scatter is just hilarious and has a lot more utility than I gave it credit for.Scalpel took out the Roach twice, Ratchet once, and scored a goal. Bonesaw scored a counter goal needing only one influence with his double jog.

Game 3 into Order. Brisket/Pride/VFang/SSpigot/Harry/Benediction. Game ended 12-6 for me.

Win the roll off and kick it to where Spigot can get it but no one is in kicking distance to him and a obstruction blocking most safe places to kick the ball to.

Turn 1, Spigot goes and gets the ball kicks to open field. Scalpel runs up and gets the ball and being able to get in melee with Spigot. she puts some damage into him and kicks back to open. The ball landing right in front of Graves. I pass the ball around my lines to get MOM and Midnight offering Ghast up the field. Ghast KD's Spigot and is left looming over him. Brisket pops all her stops and Legend route ones to Scalpel gets the T Dodge and with two crowd outs she still sinks a goal on one dice. Morts 1-4.

Turn 2. Sees Ghast finishing off Spigot. VFang and Harry wailing into Ghast. Scalpel and crew removing Brisket from their lines. Bonesaw jogging to outside Prides Counter Charge. Sprinting to engage him and be in tap in range. Booting in a goal. Morts 8-4.

Turn 3 I try to set up and silly VSwarm goal and came one dice short on the wrap to push away the Lion. This puts the ball on the goal with both his strikers coming back on the pitch no where near being able to score a goal. Harry and Fang finish off Ghast. Fang comes over and puts 6 into Hemlocke. Scalpel wails into graves and leaves him with 2 points left. Spigot and Brisket kick the ball around and try to move up the pitch but Graves flies in and Tackles the ball from Brisket and kicks it back behind both of them, 8-6 Morts still in charge. Scalpel starts by taking Fang off the pitch then walks up and puts some points into Benny. Ghast and Graves finish off Spigot thanks to the SO game plan card my opponent played. 

 

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8 hours ago, TanE said:

But now you have reliable TAC 6 for counterattacks without waiting to activate for crazy and it's all in all a -1 TAC for not damaging herself AND a nice dodge to cover... after a charge. That's sold me Cosset, because she was so fragile, that I didn't like to play her. And even with Second Wind at Scalpel I didn't wanted to bind Scalpel near Cosset for that.

You're 110% right, I barely noticed that old Cosset was a TAC 4 model before Crazy. Been a while since I played my spooks. I'm still gonna lament the loss of the 1 TAC because it feels like a big deal with how many 2 arm models I find myself up against. Especially when she always generates the MP to heal herself. She definitely does what she's always done better than ever, but now there's still the scene in the story where she bites out a chunk of her own arm that no longer makes sense. Would a TAC 5 Cosset with Crazy reeeaaaaaaaaallllllly be so bad?

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23 hours ago, el009 said:

Chisel deletes her in one activation with no external buffs...

It's not only Chisel that can do that and it's a gerneral Spooks "problem" to get deleted fast. 😅

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5 hours ago, TanE said:

It's not only Chisel that can do that and it's a gerneral Spooks "problem" to get deleted fast. 😅

Yeah, with some unlucky spike our players tend to die in a single activation. It's not a bug, it's a feature! This way You can easily reposition them near the edge of the pitch. More than once my master plan failed when a player survived on 1 or 2 hp... :D

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So, with a bit more time to think about it, what are people coming up with for their 12?

My initial thoughts are:

  1. Obulus
  2. Scalpel
  3. vHemlocke (Toolbox character)
  4. Casket
  5. Ghast (Both Ghast and Casket serve the "bruiser" role and provide significant disruption)
  6. Vileswarm (Could also be Dirge, depending on preference. It's hard for me to justify running both, though)
  7. oGraves (Another toolbox, enables take-outs)
  8. vGraves (Similar to oGraves--toolbox and enables take-outs and has ball control - Good if you're not running Obulus, but Scalpel doesn't need his ARM reduction against most teams)
  9. Silence
  10. Bonesaw (Our primary striker option)
  11. Brainpan and Memory
  12. Cosset

Admittedly, it's a bit easier for me to make the cut because I don't yet have the Ratcatcher's models. I do see Pelage, Cosset, and Brainpan & Memory as somewhat interchangeable in that their primary function is dealing damage (questionable for BP&M, but they are more reliable at damage than scoring). So, I could see swapping Brainpan & Memory or Cosset for Pelage.

As for Skulk... He'd be great against football teams, and possibly would go in the spot Cosset or BP&M takes, thought you could also sub out vGraves for him.

I see this as purely a theorycrafting exercise, since it's so early in the season, but would be curious to know more about how others are thinking about the models and their rosters.

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My 12 are Obulus, Scalpel, Dirge(or Vileswarm now both are good option), Ghast, Casket, Silence, Brainpain&Memory, Cosset, oGraves, vGraves, Bonesaw, vHemlocke.

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@DrDoak It's hard to pick 12 at the moment, I'd take:

Scalpel

Obulus - I guess both captains have their matchups 

Dirge - Free charge is fun but outside of that VSwarm doesn't do much. I'd rather have the bird for his mobility and assisted.

oGraves

vHemlocke - two swiss army knives 

Ghast

Casket - bruiser duo, I think that Ghast is better overall but Casket Time is too awesome to give up

Bonesaw - the only dedicated striker, more reliable in scoring than Hemlocke

Silence - situational but should me MVP in some matchups

Cosset - not as vulnerable as before and assisted is easier to setup (tag along), lure might be super valuable for Scalpel

Skulk - does his stuff with little or no influence, decent parting blows, consumes significant amount of clock to play around

Pelage - I have mixed feelings here, if she had 2 more hp or TAC6... I guess she's first one to leave when Edge arrives (or Layne, we didn't have an update from SFG for quite a while) 

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Right now I think its real easy to leave behind Pelage and Skulk. Skulk is really only strong into Fish and possibly Navigators. The next to be cu tI believe is 1 of the Mascots. Ive played about 3 games with VSwarm and he is just the best. Doesn't need Inf to work. Can be supported by VGraves. Scalpel can free him with strings. Now if he dies he only hurts your opponent. Dirge I think is much better than what he used to be but will take more play time to see where he fits in. 

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@Jynxed85

Yeah, I felt somewhat similarly with regards to Pelage and Skulk when I was reviewing the changes (and deciding if it was worth it to buy the Ratcatchers for those models). Both of those models seemed to more appealing when several of the Morticians models were underwhelming. With the rework, the Ratcatchers models seem good, but less compelling. Originally, I thought of Pelage as a "better Cosset" in some ways, fulfilling a similar role. Now... The differences between them are a bit closer. Sure, Pelage has some other effects, but I am guessing most people take her for damage?

Skulk does seem best vs heavy footballers, but I'd be interested to know if others feel differently. It seems like, outside of that, you can get by with Ghast/Casket for a similarly disruptive role.

 

@el009

You seem to have a similar rationale in how you approach your twelve. However, I also think that, with 12 slots, the number of agonizing choices are fewer than if, say, they had kept the restriction to 10. You are basically making a few style preferences with regards to a handful of models.

I think Dirge definitely has the utility advantage if played well. However, Vileswarm's damage will help make the Mortician's take-outs more reliable and I think will generally be easier to play. VS's movement may be a big hindrance, but Scatter helps with that.

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@DrDoak Skulk isn't crazy good but he's solid. I'd say he's better versus teams that don't play the ball all that well - football focused squads will outplay him.

 

I'm thinking about Dirge catapult on turn 1 when receiving. You give 1 inf to the bird and 3 Hemlocke. Hemlocke sprint with bird following with tag along, passes the ball on 3+ for dodge, midnights him and on his own activation Dirge jogs and scores. 8+4+8+8+4, 32" goal threat but 2 activations so might be countered.

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I think I would never go dual mascots. I would take the one I prefer and take another player or captain into the T12.

For me it's Dirge. Vileswarm is nearly as fast, but there are two assists for other players. Only VetGraves have a buff for VS - which isn't bad, but I think I won't use VetGraves often enough to take VS into my T12.

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I´m aware that this comment doesn´t add much to the conversation, but I´m gonna say it anyway: New Scalpel is amazing. Her control, damage and speed/ball handling is so good, and her activation is always fun (Though can be time consuming). With vHemlocke she is just a nightmare to deal with. Kicking with Bonesaw and midnight offering Scalpel into a threatening position in the first activation can be so ball breaking for the opposition to deal with!

I´m a bit unsure when we drop Obulus now. Any thoughts? He is still good and all, and maybe the Scalpel Craze will settle eventually, but right now, she just seems so solid.

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I think it's going to be a little while before anyone really masters Scalpel.  Obulus is still crazy powerful, and capable of things that even new Scalpel can't do.  Certainly, who to take when has changed from S3, but Obulus is still going to have matchup that favor him over her.

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Had my first game with the new Scalpel this weekend. I like the new version a lot! Being able to take the Momentous 2 damage result consistently while pushing people around feels very satisfying and lets her rack up both momentum and damage on an activation. She really wants to be in there with the enemy though. I chose to receive and she couldn't do much until the opponent got close.

I chose to receive, but playing the game made me wonder if Scalpel would prefer kicking instead, as it would allow her to get closer to the action faster. What do other people think?

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