Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Rename Vet Spigot to Guy Incognito so that he will actually get used? Or just tweak him a bit.

Some buffs to Stave would be nice too - Ramming Speed as a trait perhaps? Sturdy and/or Stoic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be happy is Stave's Heroic got changed to "The old heave ho: this model gets +2" range to character plays."

I also expect v.Decimate to lose something...maybe tough hide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be fine with vDecimate losing something as long as it's not speed or 2" melee.  I'd guess "the result" is going to be adjusted- KD/Stagger is astonishingly good.  Maybe her playbook gets one longer?  I don't want to see her lose anatomical, as I think that's something that's very Decimate and also helps with her consistency.  I'd like to see her low results very consistent and the top ones the things people have to reach for a little.

I'd like to see some more low pushes to make Counter Attacks more relevant, since that seems to be a part of our core design.  I'd also like to see the Spigots rebalanced so it's really a choice which one you're going to take.

I'd also like Spigot 3 to be dual-guild so we can use him! =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember Mat (or was it Perkins?) talking about the Brewers in a pod cast... GICs were fresh out and it was stated that the cards were made with Brewers in mind. The problem is that if you make any one character better, they become an auto pick (hello Decimate!), but the cards made it possible to buff the entire team without making any model a pain to play into. It's a real shame for Brewers that the cards didn't work out. 

I'm not sure what I would change,  @Fish-in-a-Beer suggestion of lower double pushes is a nice one, and I'd vote for losing Acrobatic from Decimate simply because it doesn't fit the theme, although I've not used it yet so might not make that much difference to the game. It does provide a silent benefit of opponents choosing not to counter as i can just re-engage, but given her Heroic,  I don't think it matters that much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not class vDecimate as overpowered or in need of a nerf.

Yes she is good, but I feel her almost automatic selection is based more on her being the best that the brewers have access to rather than her being massively game breaking.

Or have I missed some game and tournament write ups/reports that show she is a meta dominating monster?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Esters/NerfCimate is an insane combo. She might just have the best Kick-Off pressure in the game with a Threat Range with up to 16" and an 8" Second Wind. I seriously think she needs to be nerfed a bit. FFS Vitriol got nerfed when she was nowhere near as strong as NerfCimate. 

 

#PlayingDecimateToProveAPoint #NerfCimate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vitriol however had the rest of the Alchemists around her to compound the issue, vDecimate only has the Brewers. Power for one team is not the same as power in another team.

Threat the the kick-off model is meant to be a thing and it is not exactly hard to see coming or adapt to.

When I start seeing Brewers overly dominating the tournament scene with vDecimate in every 6 like the alchemists were, then I'll grab my pitchfork and call for a nerf to her. At the moment all I'm seeing is a growing internal balance problem with models like Mash, vSpigot, Stave and Stoker being unable to bring something valuable enough to unseat vDecimate, Friday and oSpigot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, you probably haven’t seen any tournament results with her since she’s not in general release. Vengeance will be a great event to see how big a splash vDecimate makes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vengeance will be chaos - too much new stuff at the same time. I think we'll only see after a few weeks. Frankly I think she shouldn't have Tough Hide - I have no idea why she has it and Spigot1 does not and it makes her too survivable as well as being a super solo - I mean TH and close to the best counter attack in the game? 

It feels a little like she has her current card just to help Brewers out for 6 months and then in November her real card will be revealed. If she stays like this in S4 with Brewer buffs remaining as they are (or getting better?!?) she is ridiculous. My prediction is Spigot1 is losing Tooled Up (maybe put it on Spigot2 or Stoker?), Stave gets Gluttonous Mass, Mash gets a MOV increase, maybe Friday loses Defence Support and moves to 5+/0 - that would unlink her from Spigot and make the two of them independent choices. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

I mean, you probably haven’t seen any tournament results with her since she’s not in general release. Vengeance will be a great event to see how big a splash vDecimate makes.

I'm honestly just expecting the Farmers, Fish and Alchemists to be the kings as usual as they are very adaptable teams with strong underlying mechanics. Post-Vengeance I'm kind of expecting the Hunters to start doing some serious shake-ups.

If Season 4 is just tweaks as was suggested then vDecimate may not change at all. If the whole team gets a proper look at in a bid to resolve their intenal balance issues then basically everything is up in the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

I'm honestly just expecting the Farmers, Fish and Alchemists to be the kings as usual as they are very adaptable teams with strong underlying mechanics

 

In my opinion Brewers are the most adaptable team there is :) Right now they have great strikers, possibly the best buffs in the game, insane DMG output with outstanding Threat Range. Maybe your local Brewers struggle to get the most out of the guild and that's why you don't see just how broken they are now. In my local meta, I've switched from forcing an engagement on my terms while killing the ball to chasing the opponent down the pitch and murdering him with an occasional goal when I'm feeling cheeky. 

 

BTW don't take Tooled Up away from Spigot :P And Brewers simply wreck Alchs right now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see how Decimate2 stays as she is - I've played several games with her and she is utterly ridiculous under Tapper or Esters (and Tooled Up if you even need it) - she deletes models trivially and with 2" they can't do a damn thing about it. Decimate1 was limited by her 1" and her lack of accuracy buff and buffs not working. Decimate2 has a SUPER accuracy buff, 3 DMG low down, TAC 6 with 5 columns AND Anatomical, while also have Tough Hide and a super counter attack. She is totally off the charts bonkers. Even if you didn't have Commanding Aura, Tooled Up, Time's Called or Empowering Voice in faction. Ooh and she has SUPER KNOCKBACK - because REASONS. Something has to give.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

I can't see how Decimate2 stays as she is - I've played several games with her and she is utterly ridiculous under Tapper or Esters (and Tooled Up if you even need it) - she deletes models trivially and with 2" they can't do a damn thing about it. Decimate1 was limited by her 1" and her lack of accuracy buff and buffs not working. Decimate2 has a SUPER accuracy buff, 3 DMG low down, TAC 6 with 5 columns AND Anatomical, while also have Tough Hide and a super counter attack. She is totally off the charts bonkers. Even if you didn't have Commanding Aura, Tooled Up, Time's Called or Empowering Voice in faction. Ooh and she has SUPER KNOCKBACK - because REASONS. Something has to give.

OK then, you earnest enough about this.

What about knock the 2nd column's momentous :PP: down to a momentous :P:, move the momentous :3::P: on the 4th to the 5th then add a momentous :PP: to the 4th to replace it?

That would remove her very easy counter attack option when fighting 1" melee models and slow down her damage output (also would aligned her with the other Brewer squadie brawlers that have their top damage result right at the end of their book) but still lets her play the repositioning game with her heroic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stacking of multiple buffs over multiple activations in a turn to achieve more than the sum of the parts is a big part of the brewer game design. So a big part of why I'm not sure vDecimate needs a major change is that in their current design Brewers really need a few models that are suitable to be the last part in the series of activations (vDecimate, Scum, Hooper ect) that does big damage.

One way to add a bit of a slow down to her and make her less deadly as a base line but still able to do work is to not only knock her top damage result to column five but also reduce it from 3 damage down to 2 but then have her heroic play add 1 damage to playbook damage results which would then make her more subject to the momentum management game that brewers have to partake in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once S4 splits the Brewers into two Minor Guilds (one supporting the Masons, one supporting the Blacksmiths or Farmers), these balance issues will be solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

vDecimate is not OP.. 

Yes, she has a good stat line and playbook but 3/1 with 14 boxes is still easy to kill even with Tough Hide..

If anything I think the "Exiles" are a precursor to the changes coming in the s4, but if they do decide to tone her down I'd expect there to make her 2/3 inf rather than change anything else on the card..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my fears for Season Four is the clear preference that Steamforged has for keeping the ball "live"- they've been very open in interviews on podcasts and such lately that they dislike "Killing the Ball" and are actively working to keep it more a part of the game.

I like that, conceptually- but I don't like what it may mean for teams like the Brewers.  If the ball is more "live" throughout the game (especially since efforts to keep it such seem to often fall into conversations about limiting momentum generation for teams that "kill" it, and we're feverishly dependent on momentum), that disadvantages teams like the Brewers who are slow, grinder teams that want to win a 1-4 or at absolute most a 2-2 kind of game unless they get some kind of buff to their ability to actually play football.

Don't get me wrong, we have a few good strikers (Friday, vSpigs, even Lucky and vetCimate will work in a pinch I guess), but part of the core design of fighting teams in GB has been "stopping the goal scoring from happening" long enough to kill the other team.  I'm confident in SFG's design and playtest team (they've been rocking it lately, for the most part), but I'm still nervous about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So am I the only who activates Decimate first? The team has a bunch of models who will deal massive damage once buffed and Gang Ups in place, but few players who can go first, do something impactful to the game,  and reliably get momentum. 

@Fish-in-a-Beer I agree it's quite worrying... I think ball killing is in a decent place now, it's possible to hold the striker back for a turn, but it's not easy. If they tip the balance towards the scoring teams, I think they'll have to rework teams like Butchers and Brewers quite a bit to keep them competitive. I like both these teams, don't want them to change!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, EpicChris said:

maybe Friday loses Defence Support and moves to 5+/0 - that would unlink her from Spigot and make the two of them independent choices. 

No way Friday goes to straight DEF 5 with Esters making it 6. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, CurlyPaul said:

So am I the only who activates Decimate first? The team has a bunch of models who will deal massive damage once buffed and Gang Ups in place, but few players who can go first, do something impactful to the game,  and reliably get momentum. 

@Fish-in-a-Beer I agree it's quite worrying... I think ball killing is in a decent place now, it's possible to hold the striker back for a turn, but it's not easy. If they tip the balance towards the scoring teams, I think they'll have to rework teams like Butchers and Brewers quite a bit to keep them competitive. I like both these teams, don't want them to change!

I activate Decimate first to drag models back into my lines. 

If killing the ball is getting reduced, nerf scoring teams. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×