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Rejusu

Model distribution needs to change

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2 minutes ago, supertzar said:

No I meant that you'd have all the metal models in blisters so if you play a minor gulid you could just get 2 blisters and have all available models. And if you wanted the metal guilds as a whole you could buy the big box and get everything with a small discount. It would improve the situation to a point where the only problem models would be the minor dual guild players. I'm not really sure how to fix the whole situation but I never REALLY understood the choice to ditch blisters and sell only boxes. I just don't understand the decision why we can't have both.

We don't have blisters because B&M stores don't have the room for the amount of blisters that Guild Ball used to have. It took a LOT of shelf space, and they didn't mesh well at all visually with the starter boxes, which also took up a lot of room for how little they held. Blisters were too small for any meaningful descriptions, and you can't really buy them without already knowing what you want before you enter the store. It's very clear that SFG is moving Guild Ball towards a model that promotes playing right out of the box (a great move if you ask me), and that does not mesh with 6 individual blisters on a store rack. God forbid they're out of stock on something and you're left with 5 unplayable models. Not to mention packaging and shipping individual models is much more expensive.

As much as I wish we still had individual models for cases like this, I get why it's not viable anymore. But there needs to be some sort of compromise so that people aren't forced to sell extra models or buy from other sources to get what they want.

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I sympathise with the concerns expressed here - especially as a new Blacksmiths only player looking at the new upcoming box.

Speaking constructively (or attempting to) would the best solution be Steamforged offering mail order only on singles?

I imagine most would appreciate the gesture - and it need not be the entire catalogue and also saves on packaging costs (no need for blister art and so on) nor is it a burden on FLGS' shelves.

I can also see many preferring that to Ebay and Facebook; where scalping can occur, and worse. Many would be happy to see SFG make a profit on the singles if it meant they were actually available!

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4 hours ago, alopex said:

. If you want to start with a minor guild and you don't play the major guild, you will need to buy at least one 6-pack of the major guild. When they play really dirty they take 1 model from each major guild pack leaving you with 10 models you don't want. This way the game becomes way to expensive.

Yeah the minor guilds are also just problems waiting to happen if they split the players that can play for the minor guilds across boxes. And it sounds like this will be the case with Falconers as the crossover players are apparently Egret and vHearne who are in different boxes. Not quite as bad as the multi-guild boxes though as at least if you buy a box of Morticians or a box of Hunters you can play all of those models. And it isn't as egregious since the expectation is that you get the minor guild if you play the major guild. Where as the UiC and Faithful boxes seem to expect you play every single guild.

4 hours ago, Biff'd said:

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for SFG, as I think this policy is decidedly anti-consumer, but I understand why they would do it this way in an effort to support FLGS's and ultimately the game. 

Any normal FLGS can only realistically support so many product lines, and reducing multiple individual blisters to one box makes ordering and inventory management much easier for the FLGS. It also ensures that they don't have "dead product" sitting on the shelves, i.e. blisters that nobody wants to buy. As any retail store pays up-front for product in their store, anything on a shelf that isn't selling is costing the FLGS money. Run into this problem with one game enough, and you'll simply stop carrying it altogether. 

There is also the added bonus to SFG and the game that if you're forced to buy models for guilds you don't want right now, you may ultimately end up picking up the guild because you already have that one model you want to try out.

At the end of day, SFG will probably only stop doing it this way if people stop buying these boxes. 

Funnily enough switching to single boxes actually ensured my FLGS did have dead product sitting on the shelves, i.e. blisters that nobody wants to buy. And it's why they won't carry the game anymore. New players won't want to touch the singles because they'd just end up buying the same model twice when buying the 6 player boxes. Also while I can appreciate the reasons for reducing SKUs and not having your entire range available as single blisters I think this is taking SKU reduction a step too far. Bundling related product together is rational, bundling unrelated product is not. It's also worth noting that the repackaging was originally predicated on metals being eventually replaced with cheaper plastic boxes. Not only has that not happened for the older guilds (and likely never will happen now) the price of the plastic boxes has also shot up. They're now releasing new teams as plastics but new players as metal and it's confusing what direction things are actually going in.

Also if you're forced to buy models for guild you don't want right now, you may ultimately just not end up picking those models and being annoyed at the fact they chose to sell them this way. It can be just as bad for the game as it can be good. And ultimately I think more people are going to choose not to drop a load of money on models they don't want than drop £50 to make a model they've ended up with usable. This inconsistent packaging strategy has actually made me hold off on buying models because I don't know if I'm going to get screwed by a repack. When I was hunting out the Union players I was missing I didn't buy Seasoned Brisket or First Light of Solthecius because I had a gut feeling they were going to get reboxed into something else, and I was right. But I bet there were plenty of people who bought those models when they came out and are now looking at a £50 box where they own 5 out of 6 models (and I still own 2 of those 6). And it's entirely possible those models might get repacked again when the Church minor guild comes out so I still don't want to buy it.

Releasing product and then repacking it later down the line with new product not available anywhere else? That's just going to annoy people, and isn't going to be good for the game.

2 hours ago, Toqtamish said:

I'm sorry but how did I deny it ? 

Implicitly. The solution you presented was one I recognised in my original post. The point of this thread isn't to find workarounds for the problem, we're already aware of them, the point is to make SFG (if they even read these forums) aware that the way they're distributing these models is problematic. Also buying a box and selling out the singles may work for these boxes, but it doesn't work for the other problems outlined. No one is going to buy Faithful of Solthecius and just sell Pride as he's the main reason to buy that box. And there's little market for selling the other models in that box.

48 minutes ago, Akaleth said:

As much as I wish we still had individual models for cases like this, I get why it's not viable anymore. But there needs to be some sort of compromise so that people aren't forced to sell extra models or buy from other sources to get what they want.

I don't disagree but the compromise is a mix of boxes and blisters. Like pretty much every other miniatures game on the market does things. The only time a box should contain models for multiple sides/teams whatever is when those models can be used together or it's a 2 player starter box. For a game like Guild Ball where sides are made up entirely of single character miniatures packaging them all in individual blisters probably wasn't the best idea. But having some blisters isn't the end of the world and pretty much every mini game on the market has blister packs for single characters that aren't easily packaged with other models.

At the very least they should sell the singles on their webstore. Yes it isn't friendly to local game stores, but neither is selling them a box where they have to convince their customers to buy it despite 5/6ths of it being worthless to them.

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I don't see much problems with the exiles box (mostly because I can use most models of both boxes) secondly reselling unused ones will go pretty fast.

FGStewieBGoode1.jpg

 

The minor guilds are more of an issue to me mostly with the ratcatchers as I recently bought a steamcon skulk and now to complete my morticians I am semi forced to buy the whole ratcatchers to get pelage..

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19 minutes ago, The_Question_NL said:

I don't see much problems with the exiles box (mostly because I can use most models of both boxes) secondly reselling unused ones will go pretty fast.

The minor guilds are more of an issue to me mostly with the ratcatchers as I recently bought a steamcon skulk and now to complete my morticians I am semi forced to buy the whole ratcatchers to get pelage..

Again the point is that you shouldn't have to resell the unused ones. I have enough crap to sell without buying something just to sell most of it off.

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21 minutes ago, Rejusu said:

Again the point is that you shouldn't have to resell the unused ones. I have enough crap to sell without buying something just to sell most of it off.

Of the 12 models in both boxes I'll only "have to " resell 3 so again that's not the problem.
Just stating that if all minor guilds model that are available to any major guilds you own are only packaged in the kits you have some expensive 2 model upgrades

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I have two main issues with these multi-guild boxes;

  1. On of the major points of going from single-model to box-set sales was to make every product playable out of the box. These boxes fly in the face of that goal completely. If a new player goes to a store and sees a bunch of team boxes, they're going to be pretty upset when they go home and realize that the one they picked is actually one model each for six different teams. Some will say that the LGS owner should help them not pick the wrong box, but good luck finding an LGS owner that happens to know that much about this single specific product line.
  2. This is, and I mean this as politely as possible, a giant thumbing of the nose at people that don't buy every single thing SFG sells. It's been clear for a while that they want to encourage people to buy multiple teams, but these new boxes are a whole new level. Players are now actively punished for playing fewer teams (by having to buy excess product or work harder to find the pieces they actually want on the secondary market). What if my two teams were Butchers and Masons - I'm just double-hosed by this new set?

And the idea that the number of SKUs needs to be reduced ... What? Every LGS I frequent still has Guild Ball blisters for sale and I'm not aware that any of them have complained about the space the game takes up. Even with a full complement of blisters, GB required far less space than most miniatures games and vastly less than the MtG singles counters that every LGS in the world has.

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25 minutes ago, The_Question_NL said:

Of the 12 models in both boxes I'll only "have to " resell 3 so again that's not the problem.
Just stating that if all minor guilds model that are available to any major guilds you own are only packaged in the kits you have some expensive 2 model upgrades

Not a problem for you. Doesn't mean it's not a problem for everyone. Not everyone owns a ton of guilds and we shouldn't be expected to own every single guild in the game. I own 4 guilds and I'd still have to resell 7 of those models. If you just owned Masons and Farmers for example though there's only one usable model in each of those boxes.

The minor guild boxes are actually less problematic because even though you have to buy the minor guild to get the models for the major guild you can still use everything in the box. The Ratcatchers are a complete team. You may just want the players that can play for the Morticians too, but it's not like the rest of the box is worthless. By contrast every model in the multi-guild boxes that's for a guild you don't own is basically useless to you.

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Yea I'm really regretting buying any of my union models especially brisket and the duo, honestly it makes me feel like I got played. And now with the exiles and loyal boxes I'm forced into that situation again! I play butcher's and fish and I wanted to get into union but I feel like the barrier for entry is way too high. 

I could sell off the models I don't need but I feel like that would cause a lot of bad blood for the lgs.

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As a new player, releasing 6 faction unrelated metal models in a combined box is a very big turn off. Especially when after we buy our first box and are told that the cool vet player comes in a box with 5 other dudes I'm never going to use. Please for the love of new players make these available in singles online. Its not cool to force players to buy models they do not intend to use or play with. Or change they proxy rules to be more flexible and not force players to use characters as is (fangtooth for vet fangtooth) for example. Or rage v rage. These boxes are making the game less accessible and it's not making me feel comfortable as a newbie.

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3 hours ago, Rejusu said:

Not a problem for you. Doesn't mean it's not a problem for everyone. Not everyone owns a ton of guilds and we shouldn't be expected to own every single guild in the game. I own 4 guilds and I'd still have to resell 7 of those models. If you just owned Masons and Farmers for example though there's only one usable model in each of those boxes.

The minor guild boxes are actually less problematic because even though you have to buy the minor guild to get the models for the major guild you can still use everything in the box. The Ratcatchers are a complete team. You may just want the players that can play for the Morticians too, but it's not like the rest of the box is worthless. By contrast every model in the multi-guild boxes that's for a guild you don't own is basically useless to you.

No but when you buy a boxed set with friends/ other players it's doable.
For your 4 major guilds if you have to buy the minor guilds it's more expensive and you have more leftover.
Both situations are not ideal :( just a matter of opinion what you prefer 

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1 hour ago, ObviouslyDexter said:

Its not cool to force players to buy models they do not intend to use or play with. 

Pretty much sums it up for me. Doubleplusungood for the SFG brand. 

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I  think the Problem with the minor / major Guild crossover players are much bigger then with the exile boxes.

Exiles you can trade. Yes its not superb but its working.

 

But who wants 4 ratcatchers after i take out skulk and pelage? Right realy nobody!!!

I hope SFG fix up this Problem realy realy fast! 

 

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First of all I love that we are getting new products. Everyone loves new toys. But, I do agree the distribution for the minors and Exiles/Faithful is not good.

I see two separate problems here: Minor Guilds - whichever way you slice it the model won't appeal to everyone - having to purchase a minor guild box for 2 players for your major is annoying but at least the minor is playable. Having to purchase two MAJOR guild boxes to add to your minor is unacceptable. Not everyone will want to transition this way and it flies in the face of the play it out the box approach the minors will foster - new players may not even own Super Glue! 

Second issue is the Exiles/Faithful situation. This is bad for most players as they probably only own 1-2 guilds (unlike idiots like me) so now they have this awful decision - drop £50 on two models and hope they can resell the rest (with all the hassle that involves) or miss out on the new shiny (and in many cases ridiculously good). That shunts the issue to players but that's not going to attract people in or make them feel loved by SFG.

The way I see it the ONLY solution that meets all the requirements (simple SKUs, simple shelf space, everyone getting what they want) is for SFG to offer through their OWN WEBSTORE blister packs. They can add 10% to the price to cover manual handling and the FLGS don't lose out as they didn't want the fiddly blisters. The problem will of course be that if players buy blisters they will then go - 'oh...now I have to waste money buying the whole Mort box' unless SFG let EVERYTHING be a blister - but that seems unlikely...

So maybe that just kicks the problem down the road unless they are willing to go full blister. And everyone knows you never go full blister...

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Maybe the solution is to offer the LGS single models on a special order basis. That way they're not stuck with unwanted product or bloated SKUs. They only order what thier customers have asked for (And maybe put down a deposit for.)

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It's yet to be seen how we're going to get the lion. If that's in another 6 box, other than the ridiculous 6 box they're just about to release, I'm gonna fly off the handle!

I'll just buy a plastic lion from down the toy-shop.

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9 hours ago, CaerSidis said:

I  think the Problem with the minor / major Guild crossover players are much bigger then with the exile boxes.

Exiles you can trade. Yes its not superb but its working.

 

But who wants 4 ratcatchers after i take out skulk and pelage? Right realy nobody!!!

I hope SFG fix up this Problem realy realy fast! 

 

Not sure I agree with this, mate. You don't need to sell the four ratcatchers, keep them and the box is playable on their own. 

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2 minutes ago, Selfy said:

Not sure I agree with this, mate. You don't need to sell the four ratcatchers, keep them and the box is playable on their own. 

It's not as offensive as the Exiles/Faithful boxes, but it still remains that a Morticians player could want Pelage and Skulk without being interested in playing Ratcatchers. It's not as bad, but it's still a problem.

Also for what it's worth, SFG heavily hinted at Pride being available through means other than the Solthecian Union box, though they have not yet revealed any details as to what those means might be.

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For me Time is a very limited Ressource to...

I have 4 Guilds and thats enough. 

So "you can play them " is right. Maybe for some players. But not for me...I don't want play them and split up my time more and more. ..So the 4 players are for the trash can!

For the extra  exiles i can find a buyer for the 4 Ratcatchers. ..Falconers etc. Not. ..thats annoying. ...

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4 model alt-sculpt crossover boxes?  So no matter if you're only interested in the major or minor, you can pick up your 2 crossover players and 2 alts for your guild.  And for completionists, 4 alts!

Not that I really have an issue with the minor guild situation.  I may not be collecting everything (yet!); but seeing them as an extension of the playstyle of the majors, if I care enough to want the crossover models I'll probably want the whole box.

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Exactly my favorit solution for the minor /major Guild Problem.  Just one smal aditional box with 4 crossover players. ..So you will find someone to share...

 

Maybe some players have the Same issue as with the exiles boxes. ...But i think a good solution for others. ..

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The idea that that singles are sold via SFG online store does not seem unreasonable to be. Especially now that is how the Rookies are being marketed.

If stocking is a problem put them on sale intermittently when a production run is viable. In the same style as the “Locker Room”.

 

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I mean for me the models range from $10 to $30.  So I have purchased 2 models that have come to an amount of $40 or more.  A minor guild costs me $60.  So for an extra $20 I get 4 extra models I could play in a team of their own, a piece of terrain and a goal post? It's worth it to me just for the dual guild models and the terrain.  

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