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Lumpyseven

Ratcatchers Starting Six Thoughts

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The journey with Ratcatchers begins! I've played a couple of games with the starting six, so just wanted to jot my thoughts down to see if anyone agrees/disagrees.

 

Piper: So much interesting jankiness! The biggest thing I''ve learnt with Piper is he's not very good at going on the goal runs himself. Without easy access to dodge, he's much better at playing that control game by pushing other players around and maneuvering his own!

His heroic and legendary are both fantastic - in one game I managed to pull Blackheart over to the welcoming arms of Pelage and Scourge. Combined with his mom :PP: you can pretty easily move someone 6" as a minimum!

 

Squeak: Haven't got much out of this cute little guy yet - I can see situations where he would be useful, but generally speaking Pelage, Scourge and Piper suck up a lot of the influence...

 

Pelage: Amazing. I hadn't thought much of her initially, but after playing 2 games with her she makes life so frustrating for the opponent! Her playbook aside, the passive traits on the back of her card are worth their weight in gold! Not to mention she's a decent footballer too.

 

Miasma: Kicking off with her was interesting! Putting out 6 damage to multiple people and then jogging back to safety was rude! Also, in later turns standing around with come on mate for free is essential, especially as the disease begins to spread!

 

Scourge: Not amazing, not bad, in the middle. Like any big model with low defense, he is vulnerable to being farmed horribly, but if you keep him in the back as a threat he works quite well! Need to be more careful not to give disease to all my own players.

 

Skulk: I love the model. In Morticians, i think he's amazing. In ratcatchers... I didn't find him that useful. As I mentioned earlier, everyone else is quite influence hungry, which leaves him standing around. I haven't tried him vs a super footballing team though, so possibly this is the problem. He's the first candidate that is likely to be swapped out for VGraves/Bonesaw.

 

 

Do you agree/disagree?

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I agree with all of your assessments except Scourge. He's my MVP in every game. I'm also underwhelmed by Skulk but haven't played him into extreme football as well.

I don't kick off with Miasma, alsways with Piper. He has the biggest threat on the ball. But your first activation as a kicker should always to run one of your own models up, so Piper has a pass/reverie target after he takes the ball from the opponent.

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@Mootaz I think with 4 influence Scourge would be a huge MVP! But with 3, I'm finding he can do 12 -15 damage with a bit of set up. Nothing to be sniffed at with 3 inf! But that requires a lot of activation's to achieve!

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I'm using him to KD people at 2 inches and set them up with disease. And do 4-6 damage to them. He's a great last activation in a turn. If I want to make certain that particular players are not my opponents first activation (regardless of me having initiative or not), that is ideal.

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I feel like you haven’t played scourge enough of you think he needs 4 inf.

4 inf would have my opponents table flipping. 

Hes in a similar vein to vkat (what a suppose there). On his own he is ok. When you can have someone knocked down by graves, singled out and snared from pelage, scourge comes in to finish them off. 

He also takes an absolute beating from other teams (excluding butchers or brewers who can still kill him) and should be healing for 12 damage a turn. 

Thinking rats, you do need to include the other 2.

Bonesaw cause I love controversy, i love bonesaw in morts but don’t find a spot for him in rats.  Thanks to reverie, even scourge has a 24” goal threat in a turn before legendary. And graves, miasma and pelage (25”) all kick on 3 dice. Bonesaw adds 2” to that but I find it overkill (as much as we all love to kick in the goal on the next table over).

tldr - bonesaw is overkill

 

Graves - I actually played a lot of games with him in morts as well and Joan problem was always he was competing with ghast for his spot and role. Now, 3/2 and another 2” reach, he’s great in scrums and is a good setup piece for scourge with a kd and most likely diseased (and of course, grave digger for that magical 4 pt take out)

also, 24” goal threat with piper. Seriously

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@Mattyg2787 Hey man, I wasn't saying he needs 4 - just that with 3, he feels fairly balanced. If he had 4 he would be way too strong!

 

Good points about the other 2, I haven't included them (yet) because I only have the starting six, but when I've got some games in I'll come back and add the other two on :)

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@Lumpyseven - all good. Wasn’t meant to be that harsh (wrote that pre coffee this morning lol)

chatting with my local group, the only one reason he’s balanced is the 2/3 stat line. 

4 would mean he kills captains unassisted

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From what I've found playing against rats, Piper has the most amount of reposition I've ever seen on a model. Haunting Melody, Heroic. M>>, Legendary, Reverie? He can literally re-arrange the board state and facilitate jank goals from very far away. Same swing of the sword, I've found catchers lacking as soon as Piper is gone, they feel like they lack of direction without Piper dictating the state of play. 

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10 hours ago, Mootaz said:

And they are really hit hard by Counter charges.

They can be, for sure. Not sure if it'd work but I can see playing aggressively with piper. Pass the ball to someone close. Walk to engage tenderiser/compound so they cant charge and heroic them out of rush keeper range (heroic gets around glut mass on compound). Then, reverie the ball holder for an uninterrupted goal run.

As usual with any theory crafting, take with grain of salt as it's completely dependent on board state. But it's a thought I had to get around counter charges (rush keeper specifically).

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I played the Ratcatchers tonight at the launch party my FLGS was having. Playing against blacksmiths was entertaining, Miasma was my MVP because my opponent spent the first couple of turns  keeping his people bunched together.  Skulk was a surprise to me, He helped me punish an overeager Ferrite  being able to chase after her dodge away after activation was cool. Overall I really enjoy the team, I think they're a lot of fun to play! I'm already prepping my new minis for the painting bench!

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Just prepping my figures. They are soooooo much cleaner than the Blacksmiths! 

There is a mold line visible in Pelage's hair, one around Skulk's head and on one of Piper's arm's. No problem in dealing with those. Far better quality control in this batch.

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@Lumpyseven Oh yeah, between that, the character play damage potential of miasma, the Blacksmiths have a tough match up.  They came out ahead though with the win, alloy is just so slippery that even skulk couldn't keep up with him. Super fun game though. 

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played the first game with my spangley new ratcatchers today.

Reverie is obscene!

Everyone was diseased by early turn 2. I pushed Miasma too far forward and she got mauled. Scored a Reverie tap in goal with Squeak, of all people.

Did I say that Reverie is obscene?

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After 5 games with the Ratcatchers I have to say they are one of the most fun play experiences I´ve had with a new guild. Just some random musings:

* Piper almost always get 3 influence to threaten the reverie. But when do you give him more? I find that I often over allocate influence to him, and while he can do fun stuff, it doesn´t always feel as useful. the Haunting Melody is great, even though it´s almost always piper that has to move. Take advantage of the "towards" wording and be creative! It´s especially great against opponents with the ball if you start within 7 inches and load him up with 6; I come to you, tackle, heroic push, sprint somewhere else, pass the ball, reverie. WHAT JUST HAPPENED.

* Scourge is a tricky piece to play, and you have to be able to change his playstyle based on the opponents team. If they are a beater team, you have to keep him back, otherwise he just melts. Vs a scoring team, he can be an excellent tank, because he never really dies if you can´t burst him down quick enough. The damage he can do for next to no setup is good and reliable, the damage he can do with setup is great ++.

*Miasma is a good player, her character plays are great, clearing conditions is great, and her playbook is pretty good aswell! The -1 TAC if diseased aura can be hard to remember, but fighting around cover + this can sometimes lead to really bad situations for your opponent that they might not have planned for. 

* Skulk is usually hit or miss, but I like having him in my lineup. If nothing else, he is a good player to tackle the ball from far away, especially against UM teams and the like. Just having another TAC 6 player seems strong. He isn´t very tough, so positioning is key with this guy. Also remember that Lightning Reflexes and Follow Up are "Directly Towards", so keeping him around barriers and other terrain can often be detrimental to him and easily exploited. Still, a great player in his own right, and when meeting his favorite opponents he can be a nightmare, or simply turn off certain goal threats.

* Pelage is the player I´m having most difficulty in placing. She can be a great, annoying, damage dealing supporter striking threat, but also sometimes she just dies. Her dilemmas are great, but her skills are extremly dependent on what you are facing. I think she is the player who´s most often sidelined for a Mortician player, even though I think she´s situationally great. In a situation where she can hang around a bit, healing a couple of times and triggering multiple dilemmas while applying singled out here and there, she is great. Hitting a soft male player? Great! Also, in a guild where many players want to max out, having a player who has a detrimental passive effect is great. Just walking up to people and saying "Snared or 3 damage?" can be worthwhile. Her weakness is the usual weaknesses that 1¨ models usually have, in addition to her relative squishiness. 

Squeak seems like an OK-Good mascot, even though he doesn´t usually get any influence. His character play is a strong threat, and I think opponents should always be aware of it. 

* While I see the benefits of Vgraves (KD + Disease, Gravedigger, 2¨ etc.) I just don´t fancy him. Tac 5 is still bad when fishing for a KD on 3, and while singled out helps, I don´t feel like that 1-2 punch is good enough to warrant his inclusion. I´m very open to the idea that I could be wrong here, but he doesn´t really entice me. Bonesaw just doesn´t bring what I want. I feel like scoring a goal in rats is very easy, the hard part is regaining control of the ball. Bonesaw doesn´t really help here. I´m continuing to test them both, but these are my thoughts so far on these two!

I really like the guild so far, and plan to continue practicing with them. Might even bring them to the WTC! The limited roster size is a problem though, but getting an extra game plan has, in 2 out of 5 games, given me an extra 7 card, so theres that. Keeping 6 instead of 5 also opens up a tiny bit of flexibility that has helped me in a couple of games aswell. Interested to see how the guild evolves as people get better with them!

 

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On 4/21/2018 at 4:03 AM, The Old Buzzard said:

Just prepping my figures. They are soooooo much cleaner than the Blacksmiths! 

There is a mold line visible in Pelage's hair, one around Skulk's head and on one of Piper's arm's. No problem in dealing with those. Far better quality control in this batch.

I highly recommend dusting them with white or some other color after priming ("zenithal priming" if you want the fancy term). Mine had a significant amount of mold lines that I only saw after doing this. 

Overall, though, the mold lines are very manageable, and only having six models to clean makes that more bearable. 

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On 18/4/2018 at 11:05 PM, Mattyg2787 said:

 

Bonesaw cause I love controversy, i love bonesaw in morts but don’t find a spot for him in rats.  Thanks to reverie, even scourge has a 24” goal threat in a turn before legendary. And graves, miasma and pelage (25”) all kick on 3 dice. Bonesaw adds 2” to that but I find it overkill (as much as we all love to kick in the goal on the next table over).

tldr - bonesaw is overkill

 

I read somewhere that you can activate swift wind in his activation, then move him with reverie through the people to score (being aware of pblows)

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4 hours ago, Nuzzzo said:

I read somewhere that you can activate swift wind in his activation, then move him with reverie through the people to score (being aware of pblows)

I think 'Glide' would last until the next maintenance phase too.

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On 4/27/2018 at 4:37 AM, Nuzzzo said:

I read somewhere that you can activate swift wind in his activation, then move him with reverie through the people to score (being aware of pblows)

 

On 4/27/2018 at 9:08 AM, The Old Buzzard said:

I think 'Glide' would last until the next maintenance phase too.

They both last until the end of the turn. 

"All effects caused by a Heroic Play last until the end of the current turn unless noted otherwise." Page 40 pdf rulebook.

"An active model may spend [1] MP to move across rough-ground without penalty for the remainder of the current turn." Page 45 pdf rulebook.

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