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EpicChris

Imbalance, Power Creep and Design Concepts

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I love game design and really like the Extra Credits channel on YouTube. They are talking about Video game design specifically but they generalise the concepts. There are plenty of topics on there and it's worth a look if you find dissection of how things work interesting. With the design of GodTear ongoing and new models coming out for GB, I thought it time to re-post and add on some more of these helpful discussions so that we don't fall into he trap of always calling 'Power Creep'. Anyway, I find this stuff fascinating, you might too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w - Perfect Imbalance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw - Power Creep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3b3hDvRjJA - Power Creep Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZnjwdStzUc - Future Proofing your game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRHdIScOMWQ - First Move Advantage

 

 

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It's hard to pick out a power creep trend with Steam Forged thus far...

Season 2 introduced a lot of balanced stuff and yes, they also introduced Fillet, but that got sorted with the big reset at the start of Season 3.

Season 3 then saw a lot of models (Locus, Crucible, Brainpan & Memory, Winter's Moon) that were arguably below the curve.

Then Farmers happened, where they abandoned their own design premise... Planters solid but not spectacular, Reapers rubbish until they Harvest... in favour of the silliness that was Thresher, Millstone and Tater, but that was fixed or at least adjusted quite promptly

Blacksmiths came along and although good aren't exactly dominating the meta thus far

Ratcatchers... I think we have to wait to see how powerful Reverie and Snackdigger turn out to be, but they may have overcooked them

The Exiles... a genuine mix of "Meh" through to "Ohmagerd, Decimate and Harriet are sooooooooooooooo powerful".

TLDR - SF don't always get the balance right, but it's hard to call out power creep on every new model because sometimes those models are called Crucible

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I don't think Power Creep is something prevalent in Guildball, so we're all good. Ratcatchers are a good example of a very well designed guild with have some massive strengths paired with areas of weakness paired with needing to know the game mechanics and have a good grasp of the game rules to perform well with them. 

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9 minutes ago, Laughnchill said:

Wait is Alex Botts about to get butchers nerfed? Sorry I'm out of the loop.

He’s been playing them and winning quite a few games lately. 

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On 4/17/2018 at 5:14 PM, Wynter said:

Blacksmiths came along and although good aren't exactly dominating the meta thus far

A quick fix for BS is, imho, only scoring 1 vp for taking out an apprentice. They're laughably squishy. It's hard to see how they and Farmers got play tested around the same time yet Farmers are so much stronger. I've yet to play the MCA box though, so can't comment on that half of the team. 

On 4/18/2018 at 8:08 AM, ForestRambo said:

I don't think Power Creep is something prevalent in Guildball, so we're all good. Ratcatchers are a good example of a very well designed guild with have some massive strengths paired with areas of weakness paired with needing to know the game mechanics and have a good grasp of the game rules to perform well with them. 

Ah bugger. 

 

edit - I just read this thread and I might have to give the 'smiths another run out. Despite promising myself I would focus on Morts and Rats... 

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18 minutes ago, Lee said:

A quick fix for BS is, imho, only scoring 1 vp for taking out an apprentice. They're laughably squishy.

That would make them ridiculously good. The apprentices are rightfully soft in response to them replacing a mascot. The idea you could take out Alloy and only get 1 VP in return after he’s done scoring a goal would take the guild from above average to broken in a single move.

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18 minutes ago, Gorion said:

The apprentices are rightfully soft in response to them replacing a mascot.

That doesn't make sense to me. You can take out an apprentice almost as easy as you can a mascot (in my experience at any rate), only they are 3 of them for 6 VP instead of one, for 1! 

I definitely need to to give the 'smiths another run out though, some of the jank box 2 can do looks fun. 

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I think Smiths are <waves finger in air> just right. They have some insane powers - abilities that in other guillds would be imba, but they are cleverly tied together in BS such that there are some obvious weaknesses that other guilds don't have to compensate. I don't know who was lead on BS but whomever it was is a genius. They did a fantastic job on BS. Farmers...was a car crash. If they were led by the same person...mind blown.

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I've been swatting up on 'smiths this afternoon, and have reconsidered my view of them. 

They've got some hilarious jank, and yeah they need something to offset that. me losing Apprentices so quickly is my own fault for leaving them in positions where they can get murdered before I've scored 3 goals! 

 

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I do hope you read my guide (TOOT! TOOT! Why yes officer I did bring my own horn). ;) Seriously yeah, BS are a team that winds up to some insanely silly stuff - and the penalty is the squishyness of Apprentices, the 12 INF cap and the order of activation issues. But when a plan comes together you feel like the motherflippin' A-Team. DA-DAAH-DA! DUM-DUM-DUUUUM!! 

 

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I really don't think you can compare any Apprentice to a mascot. The worst of them 3/2 with 12 health under sentinel, all of them have reasonable counter attacks and all take much more effort then your average mascot to kill.

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23 hours ago, Lee said:

I've been swatting up on 'smiths this afternoon, and have reconsidered my view of them. 

They've got some hilarious jank, and yeah they need something to offset that. me losing Apprentices so quickly is my own fault for leaving them in positions where they can get murdered before I've scored 3 goals! 

 

Awww man, I was cracking my typing knuckles, getting my “someone disagreed on the internet” hat on and you turn around and say you were wrong! 

Well if thats how we are playing it! I’ll follow suit, the BS team should recieve a VP for each apprentice killed!!!

In all seriousness, they do have some amazing models. If ferrite and iron or just alloy were Union style models, I would happily bring them on most teams.

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I'm one of the few people that comes online open to having his view changed :D

I'm usually always correct, of course, but every now and then... 

On 4/25/2018 at 3:29 PM, EpicChris said:

I do hope you read my guide (TOOT! TOOT! Why yes officer I did bring my own horn). ;) Seriously yeah, BS are a team that winds up to some insanely silly stuff - and the penalty is the squishyness of Apprentices, the 12 INF cap and the order of activation issues. But when a plan comes together you feel like the motherflippin' A-Team. DA-DAAH-DA! DUM-DUM-DUUUUM!! 

 

I'll get on that this afternoon! 

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