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Harriet 'the Hat' revealed!

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5 hours ago, AspiringPacifist said:

Yeah, I like having Colossus a lot, but he's nowhere near the goal threat of oVel, imo.  The way I've used him,  he's more of a distruptive setup piece that happens to have a reliable goal if he's in position for it.

I also love his large base and 2" melee zone and stoic.  But yeah, if you don't have oVel, you're severely limiting your goal scoring potential.

Does anyone else have concerns about an all 1" melee zone team?

I'm assuming the Captain is PV. I'm just not convinced you really NEED Velocity to score goals. Especially if you're looking to get a few more TOs with the Harriet/Ratchet/Hoist combo.

 

Colossus seems like the better pick. You get good KDs and Singled Out to better leverage the silliness of the aforementioned combo.

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What does your team look like with her?

Ballista, Mother, Harriet, Ratchet, Hoist, Velocity?

That's a pretty greedy team and no safety of counter charge and requires a lot of setup to be good in melee. It also isn't that good at getting the ball back without over extending. Not to mention the lack of 2" melee which makes them very susceptible to counter attacks.

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I would leave home Velocity and bring a battery in Compound, and play a 2-2 game. Ballista's Breach and Hoist doing Burrow-stuff is enough for your goals. Ballista, Ratchet and Hoist can do quite some damage at range, you still have the Ratchet+Hoist+Harriet 15-18 damage potential with the Sucker Punch combo.

The tricky thing is managing who gets what amount of INF. I agree on that.

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i have 3 teams i am debating with her

Balista

Hoist

Harriet

Ratchet

Mother 

Locus

i call this line up the gunline. its for anyone i want to keep waaay down range, morticians, farmers, masons and ratcatchers

 

pinvice

harriet

hoist

ratchet

locus

mother

this is my rounded goals and kills 2-2 list, pinvice is a goal machine in of herself with harriet providing some good support for her via inspiring hat, 
hoist can get the kills, all the kills but can also support the goals via burrow. locus is there to tank and tarpit and ratchet is there because ratchet

 

pinvice

harriet 

hoist

compound

mother 

velocity

this is my all out football list. the aim is to score goals qicker then the opponent, probably going to be into fighting fish or midas alchemists. possibly union depending on who is captain

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On 4/16/2018 at 7:26 AM, Rugi said:

I hate this mechanic as well and I hate that, GB being a competitive game, I am "forced" to use it because it's just too good to throw momentus dirty knives all around by hitting on some poor knocked down dude. Why should you automatically hit a 5+ model  in 6" by hitting a person next to you?

Hopefully this gets fixed somehow in S4. Either by just "paying" for the CP cost by making an attack but still having to roll to hit the target (unless you're engaging it). You could still hit the model you are engaging automatically, you would still pay just the INF for the attack and you would still get momentum (if momentus).

Agreed. There is nothing worse than when someone with dirty knives is destroying from 6 in away. I think what people are missing about the Hoist thing is 2 things. Take away the Deletion and let's just say Hoist gets Tooled Up and Overclocked. That's +1 damage. There is only one way to counter Hoist which is a push because he ignores the first KD, and I imagine good players would make sure that first KD never happens before activating Hoist. Now you're looking at a possible 15 damage IF Hoist doesn't wrap on the charge. Being a Morts player that kills pretty much everyone on the team outside of Casket, Ghast and Scalpel. A Guild ball play surface is 3'x3', or 36in wide, this character play covers 16 in (not counting the base size you measure from), so it's not as easy as some say to just stay out of that area. Does everyone remember when Shark's Legendary was 8 in?, or think about Puppet Master on Obulus, he only has a 4 in joke with 2 in shadow like, and he can still get to most everyone. The other thing is if a player is sitting on a +7 card and wins initiative for the next round after dealing tons of damage already, load up Hoist with four more and deal 8 more damage from 8 in away. 

 

The issue with this whole hit one player and CP another is 2 things. One is, so the armor and def on the other player just doesn't matter because.... rules? And secondly this whole doing damage from 6-8 in away over and over and over again seems anti-thematic. I understand Alchemists with AOE's and such, I get one off's or controlling characters plays being from distance, but most of those are OPT. I think if you want to fix this quickly there are three options. 1. Make it OPT 2. Take away True Rep 3. Fix the character play attack, move damage to another model within x inches.

 

Honestly, this is disheartening to the game, we just learned out lesson about unblockable damage from Thresher, and I feel like we're right back at it. I know, I know, you still have to roll, but you still had to roll with Thresher to, and set him up with 3-4 different players, and yet he still destroyed everyone. I don't think Hoist is that different, in fact I think Hoist has it even easier.

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I think that's definitely an overexaggeration in how strong it is. At best it ruins a few matchups that have squishy models and no answers to hoist. I do agree it's a bit too strong though, but I can't decide if I'd want true rep changed or OPT added to the character play.

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12 hours ago, DeathlyDrew said:

 this character play covers 16 in (not counting the base size you measure from), so it's not as easy as some say to just stay out of that area. Does everyone remember when Shark's Legendary was 8 in?

Except that our opponent can to an extent CHOOSE where the 16' in centered. To hit a Def 5+ character for example, Hoist needs to start his charge within 6' of Harriet (because he can't true rep in the space between a charge move, and a charge attack), and then needs to charge something, hit it and bounce damage.

So, your opponent can:

1. Move Hoist (pushes, unexpected arrival, the unmasking, puppet master etc) so that he can't true rep, then charge.

2. Limit his movement (e.g. gut and strong, snared, AoE rough ground, hobble, burning)

3. Direct his movement (Theron's range move, Goad from O-Harry).

4. Block his charge lanes (move a piece with a big base in front of Hoist like Farris, so that his charge can't be in range of his preferred target due to angles and straight lines)

5. Ensure that the only target in range of a Hoist charge (within 8' of the squishy model) is someone with a >> or << low in their playbook, or has UM.

6. Protect with a countercharge player (Brick, Marbles, Tater, Compound)

7. Simply engage Hoist, so he can't charge at all.

8. Kill him at range (ranged DPS Blacksmiths are okay at this, hunters)

All of these things can be used to mitigate / eliminate the Hoist, tooled up, deletion burst damage.

The OP is a morticians player. If i was in his shoes, some options to limit this combo arer: 

a) Shutout and move players away from the threat.

b)Shutout and use memory to block him.

c)Fireblast to limit movement (reducing his charge to 5')

d) Move Obby up, puppetmaster Hoist and make him jog out of 6' from Harriet.

e) take Vileswarm and try to charge him and use Rabid animal

f) Cosset to pull Hoist closer to my team, and out of range of Harriet to true rep.

g) blind him with VHemlock

I am sure there are more options, but I don't play morticians, and have rarely played against them to be honest. The key is that while Hoist can sucker punch 8' away, he has to threaten something 7.5' away, which is a threat range small enough that you can sit outside it, activate, move in and deliver an important CP to disrupt his plans. Thresher was SOOOOO different, because he had an 11' threat range, which is MUCH harder to control.

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What he said. The 8" Threat Range of this Hoist setup isn't really that much and most of the game out-threats him. Blind, Cover, Crowding Out, Tough Skin, there are counter plays to this. If you let your opponent setup a big Hoist activation knowing how it works you deserve it a bit to be honest.

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5 hours ago, Edek said:

What he said. The 8" Threat Range of this Hoist setup isn't really that much and most of the game out-threats him. Blind, Cover, Crowding Out, Tough Skin, there are counter plays to this. If you let your opponent setup a big Hoist activation knowing how it works you deserve it a bit to be honest.

On the other hand, if you try and block Hoist somehow, he can always opt to deal 8 DMG with a Blast Earth. Still, it's a good activation.

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I played her in 3 games this weekend. She mostly spread the hat aura and pop off a free Suckerpunch each turn.  To that effect I had forgotten how nice the hat aura can be.  

Her threat projection did have a real effect on the game though. She helped Ballista create a 'no loitering' zone for ball carriers.  Noone could reliable hold the ball when both Deadbolt and Suckerpunch were available.  Furthermore I had the option to activate either, rather than being forced to activate Ballista when an enemy was threatening a goal run.  

I think she's going to be great in the mirror match and in any match where the opponent has good ball killing tech.  

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58 minutes ago, Cleavelander said:

I played her in 3 games this weekend. She mostly spread the hat aura and pop off a free Suckerpunch each turn.  To that effect I had forgotten how nice the hat aura can be.  

Her threat projection did have a real effect on the game though. She helped Ballista create a 'no loitering' zone for ball carriers.  Noone could reliable hold the ball when both Deadbolt and Suckerpunch were available.  Furthermore I had the option to activate either, rather than being forced to activate Ballista when an enemy was threatening a goal run.  

I think she's going to be great in the mirror match and in any match where the opponent has good ball killing tech.  

Cool. What other squaddies did you run with her? Any synergies you cam across you hadn't previously thought of when just theory crafting?

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On 4/23/2018 at 2:07 PM, AspiringPacifist said:

Cool. What other squaddies did you run with her? Any synergies you cam across you hadn't previously thought of when just theory crafting?

I ran Ratchet, Hoist, and either Colossus or Velocity as my opponent's models dictated(Colossus against ratcatchers, velocity against Shark and Ferrite).  I rarely gave Harriet more than one influence, as my other models were usually ready to use it for better effect.  Perhaps she would work better with compound where there are a few extra inf floating around.


I'm eager to run Harriet with Pin Vice, there is a whole new realm of possibility.

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played games with her last night,

first into ratcatchers with Harriet, pin vice hoist ratchet velocity and mother.

won the game 12 v 6 with 1 goal and 5 takeouts

to be fair my opponent miss read what reverie does on piper and thought he had the choice of coming towards me or me towards him, so he ended up massively out of position 

but hoist tooled up with sucker punch and overclock and deletion happened, took out piper and squeek turn one.

turn 2 I played keep the ball moving, won the initiative, hit scurge for the knockdown, popped heroic to make harriet mechanica popped the legendary proceeded to beat up on scourge then bounce the ball around, the hat meant that at the end of the hoist and pinvice joint activation (controller) I was up 7 momentum and a goal (7 points) miasma proceeded to make velocitys day less than enjoyable (how can a robot suffer disease)ratchet went to tool up and overclock harriet, the rat got the ball to piper then Harriet the giant killer went and put an end to scourge (9 points) and pelage via sucker punch(11 points) (my opponent had the grudge match card and I had singled out scourge, so harriet had 12 dice on the (free)charge into a knocked down scourge, double full playbook and a momentous 2. that was pretty sweet. she then proceeded to lay into him 3 more time and throw out a free sucker punch to kill off pellarge

piper finished off velocity and scored a goal in response and I threw the ball out to pin vice.

next turn I dropped the seize the initiative to make sure I was going first loaded up pinvice and killed the rat again to close out the game

harriet was GOLD in this game, total MVP. admittedly my opponent had not played the guild before and made a lot of mistakes which I took advantage off. but yeh, the amount of damage that little girl can throw out if you support her is staggering...

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1 hour ago, MrGears said:

to be fair my opponent miss read what reverie does on piper and thought he had the choice of coming towards me or me towards him, so he ended up massively out of position 

I mean, if you choose to have Piper jog for Haunting Melody, he can always just jog 0" if he's going to be put out of position..

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2 hours ago, MrGears said:

 

popped heroic to make harriet mechanica popped the legendary proceeded to beat up on scourge then bounce the ball around,

ratchet went to tool up and overclock harriet,

Dude, never thought about that combo.  Pin Vice heroic with the tooled up and overclock on Harriet, with a possible Deletion on Harriet too...

Man, that momentous 2 dmg on 2 is SO money.  That's a pretty dang reliable 16 dmg on your charge target, with the charge, plus three more attacks.

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On 4/26/2018 at 4:53 AM, Gauntlet said:

I mean, if you choose to have Piper jog for Haunting Melody, he can always just jog 0" if he's going to be put out of position..

Also, it's towards, so if the Rat player chooses the right model Piper might get to go where you don't expect by moving in an arc/spiral.

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On 4/23/2018 at 1:07 PM, Cleavelander said:

I played her in 3 games this weekend. She mostly spread the hat aura and pop off a free Suckerpunch each turn.  To that effect I had forgotten how nice the hat aura can be.  

Her threat projection did have a real effect on the game though. She helped Ballista create a 'no loitering' zone for ball carriers.  Noone could reliable hold the ball when both Deadbolt and Suckerpunch were available.  Furthermore I had the option to activate either, rather than being forced to activate Ballista when an enemy was threatening a goal run.  

I think she's going to be great in the mirror match and in any match where the opponent has good ball killing tech.  

I played a couple of games into Theron hunters with a lineup of: PV, Mother, Hoist, Harriet, Velocity, Ratchet then switched Captains for the 2nd game.  My opponent did a very good job of negating the Hoist Harriet combo (spending momentum to stand up players, counter pushes, etc).  To get the dream play you need to 1.) Tool Him Up/Overclocked 2.) Ideally get your target KD'd 3.) Charge into a model that can't counter with easy access to <> or >>.

My opponent, knowing what I was trying to do, would almost always farm then spend the MP early then stood up Jaecar and countered with the << after I charged.  So at least into hunters I struggled to get the combo off.  With that said it really dictated what my opponents could do in the turn and opened up the board for other models.

I lost the PV game 12-11 and the Ballista game we ran out of time.  However, the Ballista team felt heavily in control with a 6-2 lead and Mataagi at I think 6 health. (I made the mistake of killing a KD'd Hearne with Ballista instead of letting him lie at 1 health for Hoist to get the combo off, had I done that i may have been able to get two kills with sucker punch and kill Hearne early next round making it either a 8-2 or 10-2 game).

Takeaways: Leave easy targets for the combo on the board unless they are a threat, don't get greedy with the combo looking for the dream if they have no momentum for a counter...... take what you can get.

 

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