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Harriet 'the Hat' revealed!

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It deletes pretty much any player in the game. It doesn't stop PinVice doing her thing with 5 other INF, and feels weird for the Engineer colour pie. It means Engineers are punchy, shooty and scorey. I actually think Disarm is worse - the one weakness of Engineers appears to be covered up now because they can switch off melee models. That's on top of Harriet's ability to disrupt the ball. Engineers were already in top tier of teams before this, now I think they will be pushing back to S tier.

I don't like this but I await to be proven wrong on the table top.

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Looking at balance in a vacuum is dangerous though... if I jog princess to engage a model, Apply Butchery to it and then have Boiler make 4 attacks within 4" of Ox, he does 20 damage on average. That's 6 influence, 3 activations with the potential to more with spikes on Boilers dice.  

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Also Hoist needs a target within 8" to pull off those 5 SPs. It's a lot of setup that gets ruined with 1 Blind.

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I mean if he is taking Disarm, hoist isn't burrowing and has a messily threat of 8" total and 1" melee, so he might disarm one player a turn at best two? 

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16 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

I mean if he is taking Disarm, hoist isn't burrowing and has a messily threat of 8" total and 1" melee, so he might disarm one player a turn at best two? 

I meant having Disarm at all in Engineers (and Hoist disarming people while Velocity and Ballista score is hardly a waste) - it feels like it shores up a weakness to melee combat. That doesn't feel right.  I guess what it boils down to is that True Replication is getting out of control. It was a fun idea but it needs to stop - it affects all Engineer design ('will this bust Hoist') and it can lead to some powerful combos. Give Hoist a limited set of DEFINED abilities on his card.

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1 minute ago, EpicChris said:

I meant having Disarm at all in Engineers.  I guess what it boils down to is that True Replication is getting out of control. It was a fun idea but it needs to stop - it affects all Engineer design ('will this bust Hoist') and it can lead to some powerful combos. Give Hoist a limited set of DEFINED abilities on his card.

I don't know man, the response just seems a bit hyperbolic without ever seen the interaction played on the table. I think it's worth playtesting it on a larger scale now (obviously this went through playtesting) to see if it really is a problem. I'm not saying it's it's not too good but I think we should give some time before we declare bonkers, overpowered and stupid. 

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2 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

I don't know man, the response just seems a bit hyperbolic without ever seen the interaction played on the table. I think it's worth playtesting it on a larger scale now (obviously this went through playtesting) to see if it really is a problem. I'm not saying it's it's not too good but I think we should give some time before we declare bonkers, overpowered and stupid. 

That's not the Internet Way! I agree - I just am worried about it. 

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5 hours ago, el009 said:

... I hate the mechanic of atacking 1 model, choosing CP and hitting other player instead, it just doesn't make sense for me when I try to visualize that. Even though it's legal.

I hate this mechanic as well and I hate that, GB being a competitive game, I am "forced" to use it because it's just too good to throw momentus dirty knives all around by hitting on some poor knocked down dude. Why should you automatically hit a 5+ model  in 6" by hitting a person next to you?

Hopefully this gets fixed somehow in S4. Either by just "paying" for the CP cost by making an attack but still having to roll to hit the target (unless you're engaging it). You could still hit the model you are engaging automatically, you would still pay just the INF for the attack and you would still get momentum (if momentus).

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7 hours ago, el009 said:

On her own she's solid but not impressive but interaction with Hoist is a bit too strong. I hate the mechanic of atacking 1 model, choosing CP and hitting other player instead, it just doesn't make sense for me when I try to visualize that. Even though it's legal.

I've always seen it as a bluff. Same with dodge results. They're expecting you to do one thing, and you surprise them by doing something else and catch them off guard.

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4 hours ago, EpicChris said:

That's not the Internet Way! I agree - I just am worried about it. 

I agree with you. It's not Harry, or anyone else for that matter. It's Hoist's True Rep that is getting out of hand.

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If colossus put single out and kd on windle or similar low def/ armor you can do wrap easy and do 4 damage to high def player. And hoist is madness with the utility of true replication without any cost

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1 hour ago, Redtiger7 said:

I've always seen it as a bluff. Same with dodge results. They're expecting you to do one thing, and you surprise them by doing something else and catch them off guard.

Doesn't make sense as you're rolling vs low def model and hit the high def one. It makes no sense fluff-wise yet it's perfectly legal.

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2 hours ago, el009 said:

Doesn't make sense as you're rolling vs low def model and hit the high def one. It makes no sense fluff-wise yet it's perfectly legal.

First rule od Guild Ball is: we don't care about fluff ;)

I don't like this mechanic either, but here it is. And I see its point: don't put Jackstraw next to Windle. You have to look for another vector of attack. It only adds some more tactical depth, so I'm fine with that.

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5 minutes ago, Silvs said:

First rule od Guild Ball is: we don't care about fluff ;)

I don't like this mechanic either, but here it is. And I see its point: don't put Jackstraw next to Windle. You have to look for another vector of attack. It only adds some more tactical depth, so I'm fine with that.

I'd like to see it changed in S4 so CP triggered via playbook can only target the original 'victim'. It doesn't bring any significant depth, feels awkward and is illogical.

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1 hour ago, Silvs said:

First rule od Guild Ball is: we don't care about fluff ;)

I don't like this mechanic either, but here it is. And I see its point: don't put Jackstraw next to Windle. You have to look for another vector of attack. It only adds some more tactical depth, so I'm fine with that.

The first rule of Guild Ball is: You do not talk about Guild Ball.

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I like the trigger of playbook, hit someone else mechanic. Like someone said, it's another vector and it allows some cinematic moments and cool interactions. 

I recognize that it maybe doesn't make sense, but  benefiting from being on fire all the time or eating rats as protein bars doesn't either. And that doesn't bother me.

 

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20 hours ago, el009 said:

I'd like to see it changed in S4 so CP triggered via playbook can only target the original 'victim'. It doesn't bring any significant depth, feels awkward and is illogical.

That would screw up stuff like Drag, etc. Sometimes gameplay trumps logic to make for a better game.

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35 minutes ago, Redtiger7 said:

That would screw up stuff like Drag, etc. Sometimes gameplay trumps logic to make for a better game.

Some models would have to be reworked to make this work for sure that's doable. Drag can be hard cast at any point, chain grab is the tricky one.

For me it's rape on logic but it doesn't happen all that often to make me dislike the game.

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2 minutes ago, el009 said:

Some models would have to be reworked to make this work for sure that's doable. Drag can be hard cast at any point, chain grab is the tricky one.

For me it's rape on logic but it doesn't happen all that often to make me dislike the game.

Considering how vGutter is designed, I wouldn't expect this to change in season 4

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1 minute ago, foolwiththefez said:

Considering how vGutter is designed, I wouldn't expect this to change in season 4

Neither do I, just a simple wish...

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Harriet really makes you want to play an all 1" melee zone team.  That can definitely be exploited, right?  I suppose you may only play this kind of roster into certain other rosters, and isn't necessarily an "all comers" list?

To me, the core squadies would be Harriet, Hoist, Ratchet.  I'd assume you would pretty much always want to include oVelocity on the team as well, wouldn't you?

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2 hours ago, AspiringPacifist said:

Harriet really makes you want to play an all 1" melee zone team.  That can definitely be exploited, right?  I suppose you may only play this kind of roster into certain other rosters, and isn't necessarily an "all comers" list?

To me, the core squadies would be Harriet, Hoist, Ratchet.  I'd assume you would pretty much always want to include oVelocity on the team as well, wouldn't you?

Why Velocity? I imagined I'd take Colossus. He's a bigger presence, can more easily generate momentum, and can help control the field some. He's also a legitimate goal threat.

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34 minutes ago, Reece said:

Why Velocity? I imagined I'd take Colossus. He's a bigger presence, can more easily generate momentum, and can help control the field some. He's also a legitimate goal threat.

Colossus dies surprisingly easily i.e. doesn't control the field for very long

oVelocity scores goals, lots of goals

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Yeah, I like having Colossus a lot, but he's nowhere near the goal threat of oVel, imo.  The way I've used him,  he's more of a distruptive setup piece that happens to have a reliable goal if he's in position for it.

I also love his large base and 2" melee zone and stoic.  But yeah, if you don't have oVel, you're severely limiting your goal scoring potential.

Does anyone else have concerns about an all 1" melee zone team?

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