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THE_DOJO_MIKE

Non-Ferrite Captain and when to drop them

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So I have been playing Blacksmiths on and off since they came out and have only really had success with Ferrite as captain (although it has been very successful). So I have began to wonder what captains you would drop into different guilds. 

I feel like Morts could be Burnish and 2-2 or 4-1

Alchs -Ferrite or Furnace

Masons- ? Ferrite

Mirror- Ferrite

Butchers- Ferrite/ Burnish

Union- Burnish?

Brewers- Ferrite

Ratcatchers- Ferrite

Engineers- ? Burnish?

Hunters- Ferrite/ Burnish?

Farmers- Ferrite

 

That is just my take, let me know if you agree or disagree and why. I'd love to change from my Ferrite only ways but would like some direction from a competitive point of view. 

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I think the two most viable Captains are Ferrite and Burnish with the slant towards Ferrite because her Legendary is so good.

Specific match ups may come down more to opposing captain I feel than guild. Care to explain the specific reasoning behind each of your picks?

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Burnish against hunters seems like good choice since hunter has a lot of ranged plays. Snare is pain in the ass if you go for goals.

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Farmers- We need to outscore them and the best way to do that is Ferrite 3-0

Hunters- I have played Ferrite into several Hunters and with her legendary, the hunters player can not control all of your goal threats. Also Iron has a pretty easy time taking out egret or Jacaer. for 2-2 games. I could see Burnish being good because of the low health on most of their models as well as his legendary for protection. 

Engineers- Played Ferrite into it, was extremely tough but got the 3 goals (received) (Have no idea if other captains would do better)

Ratcatchers (pure speculation)- they can be face paced, need to get ahead using goals.

Brewers- Run around them and score

Union- I have no idea. With Benediction on the table, IDK how to get the ball from him, rage can kill fast enough to make this a problem.

Butchers- I treat the same way as Brewers for the most part

Masons- Depending on the captain, things change so another big ???

Morts is the one i am scared to bring Ferrite into. So Burnish would seem the best option there.

 

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I've gone to 3 tournaments with the Blacksmiths and played a lot of practice games. I have to say my choice of captain is nearly always Burnish, and I find I'm using him more instead of less. Ferrite just seems to always want all the influence, and that's not something I feel able to do. 

Flame Belch is tremendous. 3 damage per shot plus Burning plus the slowing effect of the Burning condition. 4 damage if there's a handy Furnace nearby. And if you get into a scrum I find he's able to do a very passable Benediction impersonation - his playbook is very similar and Hearth can buff his melee range. 

The other big plus is being able to get the most out of Cast. There have been games where she scores 8-10 points - if she charges into Burning targets that momentous 6 at the top of her playbook is very reachable and becomes momentous 7. Even lower down you're looking at 2 damage on 1, momentous 3 on 2 and momentous 4 on 4. Plus she has Shield Toss for ranged damage and ball retrieval, and a 4 dice kick. Cast is so badass her nationality should be Wakanda...

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4 minutes ago, PanzerHarris said:

I've gone to 3 tournaments with the Blacksmiths and played a lot of practice games. I have to say my choice of captain is nearly always Burnish, and I find I'm using him more instead of less. Ferrite just seems to always want all the influence, and that's not something I feel able to do. 

Flame Belch is tremendous. 3 damage per shot plus Burning plus the slowing effect of the Burning condition. 4 damage if there's a handy Furnace nearby. And if you get into a scrum I find he's able to do a very passable Benediction impersonation - his playbook is very similar and Hearth can buff his melee range. 

The other big plus is being able to get the most out of Cast. There have been games where she scores 8-10 points - if she charges into Burning targets that momentous 6 at the top of her playbook is very reachable and becomes momentous 7. Even lower down you're looking at 2 damage on 1, momentous 3 on 2 and momentous 4 on 4. Plus she has Shield Toss for ranged damage and ball retrieval, and a 4 dice kick. Cast is so badass her nationality should be Wakanda...

That is awesome to hear. Almost all of my success has been with Ferrite and goal scoring teams or opportunistic 2-2 teams. I will get some burnish practice in and see if I can make it happen with Badass Cast. 

What captains do you have the most success against as Burnish? 

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So far anything that requires set up - he does really well against Ox Butchers, Grange Farmers, Masons and anything with low wound count like Engineers and their robots, Hunters and Morticians. 

Need to get some games in against Alchemists but I think he's definitely the pick into them. 

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Ferrite is the most overvalued BS player, then her apprentice Iron :)

I am not such an increadible fan of captain  Burnish, but he is the default captain against Hunters and other blacksmiths.

My most common Captain is Furnace though. Although same basic stats as ferrite, he has a longer natural reach by 1". Although Ferrite can spend 1 INF to reach 1" longer, she can always be countered and is hence often forced to disarm even when once wouldn't like to spend INF on it (say vs. Mercury and smoke,..). These are the normal extra 2 INF I spend on Ferrite but don't spend on Furnace.

Effectively, Furnace can actually be quicker as he ignores the first burning condition and again, vs. the Alchs I find this to be increadibly useful to get you into the position you want with 1 more INF on you that will generate 1 more Mom as well.

Furnaces legendary can be quite insane as well. Cast can effectively tool herself up without a cost as her own attacks also burn the target, Alloy throws out Burn & Poison & -1 Def & -1 Arm momentously on 3 net hits:) and Furnace goes to a very nice Def3 Arm3.

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Must try some of these. I am still reaching for Ferrite. She disarms and speeds up every one once per game & Iron most of the time. But into Butchers, Corsair Fish & Brewers , they are coming to you and you only need the speed to get around them.

Had not thought of using Furnace as Capt (Tooled up is OPT.) but I can see the use Burnish would get with the extra INF. Though I suppose if he managed to hit 5 people with 1 Hit they would all be -1Arm & Burning giving the amazing Cast lots of options.

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So I played Capt. Burnish last night with hearth, Furnace, Alloy, Cast (once with Iron and once with Cinder). Both games were into Morts with Obs being first and then Scalpel. Game one, spread around dirty knives to obs and silence, then fired a 4 damage shot on obs. Killed them top of 2 with legendary. Hurt Ghast enough to have my opponent concede so we could get in another game (Alloy was withing sprint and shot range). The time he takes scalpel and crew with Pelage and pulls in Burnish after kicking with Skulk. A scrum ensued and made it possible for me to get his entire team on fire using flame belch and furnace to searing strike and cinder being kindled. The lead to Cast being able to almost kill graves in one go and setting up to kill him and Pelage on the following turn. Cast then scored a goal and left it to Burnish to kill ghast. Both really good games and really showed me some of the potential of Captain Burnish, but then again @THE_DOJO_JAKE has been preaching it since they came out!

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7 hours ago, THE_DOJO_MIKE said:

So I played Capt. Burnish last night with hearth, Furnace, Alloy, Cast (once with Iron and once with Cinder). Both games were into Morts with Obs being first and then Scalpel. Game one, spread around dirty knives to obs and silence, then fired a 4 damage shot on obs. Killed them top of 2 with legendary. Hurt Ghast enough to have my opponent concede so we could get in another game (Alloy was withing sprint and shot range). The time he takes scalpel and crew with Pelage and pulls in Burnish after kicking with Skulk. A scrum ensued and made it possible for me to get his entire team on fire using flame belch and furnace to searing strike and cinder being kindled. The lead to Cast being able to almost kill graves in one go and setting up to kill him and Pelage on the following turn. Cast then scored a goal and left it to Burnish to kill ghast. Both really good games and really showed me some of the potential of Captain Burnish, but then again @THE_DOJO_JAKE has been preaching it since they came out!

AwesomeB)

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Got a game in last night against a very good engineers player. 

After thinking about the drops into other guilds and when to play burnish vs ferrite, I played ferrite thinking that burnish would not be enough to get through their tough hide and reanimate. Got lucky a few times with ball scatters and a spike or two but ended up winning 12-6. I took my 3-0 team of ferrite, iron, farris, bolt, hearth, and alloy but ended up getting two take outs on ratchet and velocity.

The ballista matchup is very difficult in my opinion but the amount of models that we have that can score snapback goals is crazy. On top of the fact the nobody like having their best 2 players disarmed round after round. 

Anybody else have success with other captains into engis? 

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After about 20 games with Blacksmiths my experiences are very similar to that of PanzerHarris' - the more I play Blacksmiths the more I tend to pick Burnish over Ferrite as my captain. Given team's the natural vulerability to character plays and condition game, he is almost always the better pick into Balista and Theron. I like him more into Obulus, Corsair and Smoke as well. Then there is his potential to up Blacksmiths range game and killing potential - both by himself and by setting up other players. Funnily enough, more often than not, I use him as a set up for non standard killing model, namely Alloy or Bolt. Dealing 6-9 damage to a model is often enough to get it killed by one of those two. He is also decent enouth at scrum, given his good playbook (KD and >> early on) and the fact, that he can influence the game after returning from being TOed. Main thing about him is that there is little to none situations in which he cannot do a valuable activation.

While I like Ferrite and do play with her a lot, I do have two big issues with her. Firstly, she doesn't work as a non captain model and secondly, she and Iron need too much influeance too do their thing. That being said, I am of an opinion, that there is much untapped potential in Ferrite. Her toolbox is far more than just scoring goals and making things quicker for a turn. Combination of mobility and MOM Disarm / Weak Point makes her a potentially devastating first activation, even if she can't score straight away.  Reposition on Iron helps a great deal with his survivability and TO game. 

As for another Masters, I don't see any point in playing any of them as a Captain. Farris  is fine as a 3/3 model and her legandary's bonus for other models is negligible. Same with Hearth. Furnace could use extra influence and team wide bonus, but I never want him more than Ferrite/Burnish. Anvil is never in my 10. 

 

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I'm making myself play Anvil and Sledge for a while. I think I've been a bit harsh. Starting to think that Captain Anvil handing out Tough Hide everywhere might be a decent option into Ox and Theron amongst others. Try and keep apprentices upright for one more turn that my opponent is expecting. 

Have to say I'm still not sure who I drop from my 10 if they do well. 

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After taking Burnish for 4 games as captain, he is very good all around captain that can really mess up peoples plans. Against ratcatchers, he and furnace got diseased and and KD'ed and was able to forfeit movement and reduction to save me 5 momentum. He was then able to throw down 30 points of damage on legendary turn and take out 2 models. 

I think burnish can be taken into Rats, Hunters, Butchers, morts, and the mirror. 

Any other teams you can reliably taken the flamethrower?  

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Don't think there's a game where I wouldn't take him. Burnish and Cast are both good all rounders that always seem to net me points. 

Captain Anvil experiments have been interesting. Strike While the Iron is Hot and Singled Out are both great set up plays and that bubble Tough Hide was just as good as advertised against Butchers and Engineers the other day. 

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You guys have convinced me to try the Burnish Captain thing again. I have to say I wrote him off too early as I was still playing Anvil Sledge and those two were suboptimal. I will try him and see. 

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6 hours ago, EpicChris said:

You guys have convinced me to try the Burnish Captain thing again. I have to say I wrote him off too early as I was still playing Anvil Sledge and those two were suboptimal. I will try him and see. 

I think the best list I have put together so far is Burnish Cast Iron Furnace Hearth and Alloy. Gives a very good opportunity for 2-2 or 4-1. Can't wait to see how it goes for you. 

This list has received and kicked and is 3-0 so far. **

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24 minutes ago, THE_DOJO_MIKE said:

I think the best list I have put together so far is Burnish Cast Iron Furnace Hearth and Alloy. Gives a very good opportunity for 2-2 or 4-1. Can't wait to see how it goes for you. 

This list has received and kicked and is 3-0 so far. **

So you find Iron is 'better' than Cinder. Is it the access to high damage levels, the pushes? It can't be the kick stat!

The last time I was pasted by butchers I found Cinder allowed me to have more targets burning than he could put out. So Cast had a choice of targets. (So took out Ox. Who came on again over some fast ground, popped his legendary and returned the favour.)

 

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So that is actually my flex slot, cinder/ Iron depending on the matchup. I like Iron more because he is another snapback goal that pushes people out of the way, as well as his damage output is enough to get those harder takeouts. With furnace and alloy out there applying debuffs and hearth knocking people down, he can easily get to his 4mom damage. Cinder is there to play the ranged threat and farther goal threat. It seems kind of opposite but I try and take Iron if I am receiving because Alloy is prob busy in the first 2 turns with scoring. Get a takeout after the goal and then be opportunistic with either the ball or a weaker model. Cinder is where I hide the ball as well as switch the play, so I usually end up going 4-1 with that line-up.  

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