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Mako

Fisherman Player Summaries

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Fish! This thread is for you as a community to create and refine summaries for your models. If you like and use a particular model, and what you do with it isn't listed or the Guild you think they're great into (or risky into) isn't shown, post your thoughts below! The aim is to create a couple of sentences that sums up what each model can achieve on the pitch, to help newer Guild members get ideas. But don't feel you have to post about all of them, just go for ones you're confident with :) 

I'll keep updating this first post with new information when people add it to this thread, so post away!

 

Corsair (C) -

The all-rounder captain, with decent kicking stats, momentous damage results, control abilities and team support. His big draw is that he can comfortably handle both takeout and scoring based game plans, switching between them mid-game as needed. He is slower than the majority of Fishermen and vulnerable to ranged plays, but can leverage his team members to counter most threats to his plans.

Good into: // Risky into:

 

Shark (C) -

Shark is a specialised Captain, focussed on scoring goals and providing control elements. A great basic statline and Character plays enabling even more non-linear movement for himself and the team, Shark excels at getting where he needs to be and doing what he's meant to do. Tidal surge and his Legendary can cripple attempts to stop the Fish scoring, as failed goal runs can cause Shark problems because of his lack of Take Out skills.

Good into: Slow guilds, Goal focussed guilds // Risky into: Heavy Control

 

Salt (M) -

A mascot that can manage a turn one goal, given his movement abilities and (if necessary) Jac’s Get Over Here. A decent secondary goal threat, but not one that gets taken out given Loved Creature and her defensive stats. Fast enough to get back into the game if she does get taken out, and good at retrieving the ball.

Good into: ?? // Risky into: Scrum Guilds (Brewers, Butchers)

 

Tentacles (M) -

Can blunt counterattacks during goal runs with Blind, though it may need bonus time to hit. Also offers a 2” melee model with close control, good for crowding out or holding the ball safe until a goal run. Often uses the former tactic with Shark, the latter with Corsair.

Good into: Low DEF teams (eg Brewers) // Risky into: High DEF (Alchemists, Fishermen)

 

Angel -

A goal scorer, able to punch straight through the opposing line with a pile of KICK dice or serve as a snapshot turret. Good enough KICK stats to deal with crowd outs, impaired LoS or intervening models. Quick and with a good DEF stat, but easily taken out if caught, she's there to score and snapshot.

Good into: Morticians // Risky into: Engineers, Alchemists, Hunters

 

Greyscales -

Doesn’t have the longest goal threat, but is very hard to pin down and able to step in and out of scrums to grab the ball and score. Generally works as a winger, waiting for an opening and avoiding anyone that can negate his escape methods.  

Good into: 1" melee heavy teams // Risky into: 2" melee heavy teams

 

Hag -

Pure support, following key players from behind the front lines and buffing them. Handing out a buyable dodge is a gem for the already mobile Fish, which her Legendary turns all the way up. Hard to pin down, Inf efficient, and great at controlling the position of any fights to skew things in the Fish's favour. If caught she's fragile, and doesn't really have much in the way of ball skills, so avoid getting too stuck in.

Good into: ?? // Risky into: Ranged Character Plays/Conditions (Alchemists, Engineers)

 

Jac -

Although not as good a scorer as some, he is still able to put in solid scoring efforts, but he really shines at protecting key models via Goad and his survivability. Placed near the wing can threaten to knock models off the pitch, or just generally disrupt opposing setups with pushes. Allows scoring focussed Fish teams to control the opposition better and free up their goal runs.

Good into: ?? // Risky into: ??

 

Kraken - 

Doubles up the KD and drag power of a Corsair team, making control and efficient Inf use easier to manage. Works to set up damage oriented Fish teams and apply some extra damage when needed. Not going to generate a lot of momentum, but has the best access to :KD: and reposition opposing models. 

Good into: Morticians, Ratcatchers, Blacksmiths // Risky into: Butchers, Brewers, vRage Union

 

Sakana -

Great kick, decent goal threat distance with extra from playbook dodges. Very reliable at tackling and dodging away using attacks, but no buyable dodges make him vulnerable to high def models. Can also provide consistent, if not high level, damage, and survive any casual assaults with his decent defensive stats and free counterattack. Not going to set the world on fire, but a solid reliable choice in most situations.

Good into: high ARM guilds // Risky into: ??

 

Siren -

Her speed and Seduction make her an excellent control piece, able to take the ball off even high DEF or Close Control models. Also able to bring models into brawling range if needed (with Corsair) using Lure. Can even provide emergency goal scoring options. She is vulnerable to female fighters and ranged AoE plays, so may need keeping safely back when not active.

Good into: // Risky into: Butchers, Brewers, Alchemists

 

veteran Siren -

Good into: // Risky into:

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Kraken a 1/3 Inf 40mm based model with the lowest Mov and Def-Arm combination on a team that tends to desperately want a lot of Inf and fast models. Also not much of a kicker.

Corsair does what Kraken does and more and Shark wants models that can reliably kick meaning he will often be snubbed by most team builds

He is not particularly good into anyone and is often used as an MP battery by opposing teams.

The real shame is he has one of the best models in the range.

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So to continue with our less commonly seen, more limited players.

vSiren

At her release in season 2 she was an auto include for Corsair teams, now less so. She has 1" melee, a Tac of 4 and a 4 long play book with nothing of interest beyond her :momGBGB: results to activate Dread Gaze. She really needed a 2nd play adding once she lost the momentous damage

The play itself is nice, a 4" zone of Tac debuff has its uses but without anything else to offer the team it's hard to pick vSiren over her original version especially since A&G are no longer an option that needs a bit of protection to deter opponents.

If she is taken she will usually partner up with Corsair to enable the favourable scrum for him but she herself is extremely vulnerable to attack and her defensive tech tends to result in the removal of her aura from the scrum area.

With a sprint of 9" and a 2" dodge when she activates she possibly has game as a dedicated ball recoverer/passer but it's not exactly optimal.

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For clarity (and my sanity), this whole project is about what uses people have found for models and why they take them, not what models people don’t like or don’t take (there’s plenty of threads of that already ;) ).

So if you don’t like or take a model, please ignore them (and post summaries of others instead). Take a look at the morticians or alchemists threads to see what we’re aiming for in terms of length and content (those have been updated with people’s thoughts).

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Tentacles

I find this mascot to be my best friend when playing Fish.

When playing Shark then a cheeky blind on my goal run 'bounce off' target to blunt counterattacks is wonderful.  (Be warned it sometimes needs a bonus time.  1 dice character plays are quite a risk.)

When playing Corsair, then the octopus is another 2" melee zone for crowd outs and a decent place to put the ball until you're ready for a goal run (I love close control).  I find I use Blind less though as the influence is needed elsewhere.

 

Good into - low DEF beater teams where Blind is more likely to hit (Masons, Brewers, Blacksmiths).

Risky into - high DEF football teams where he becomes less versatile (Alchemists, Mirror Match).

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oSiren

7"/9" Mov and Seduction are more than enough to work with, everything else is usually just a bonus. oSiren is hands down one of the best control pieces in the game and can have impact on how an opponent lines up just by being in the roster if they know they have players vulnerable to her play.

She is great for getting the ball off high def players or those with close control thanks to seduction having a range and being triggered momentously on her second column. Just charge straight at a low def model with your 2" melee and tell someone like brisket to pass to Shark.

You get bonus cool points if the player passed to is in snap shot range and you use the two mp the attack and pass generated to shoot and score.

Lure has some nice corner case uses particularly if you need to bring people into Corsair's threat range

She also makes a decent backup scoring piece with her fast move and 3/6" kick

oSiren's only real weakness is killy female models that get to attack her def 4+ Arm 0 10hp as at Tac 3 her counter attack will likely not generate a result to escape the fight. She can also be easily picked on by ranged plays that do not target (Lob Barrel and Blast Earth ect)

Good into: Pretty much everybody.

Risky into: Teams with combat focused females and players that have none targetting ranged damage plays.

 

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I've updated the first post, but we're still missing a bunch of models - anyone using them and willing to write a quick summary?

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1 hour ago, Mako said:

I've updated the first post, but we're still missing a bunch of models - anyone using them and willing to write a quick summary?

I'm trying to write up about Jac without complaining about his playbook. It is easier said than done.

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13 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

I'm trying to write up about Jac without complaining about his playbook. It is easier said than done.

Sadly your Kraken write-up, while spot on, didn't make the player summary. :D

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29 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

I'm trying to write up about Jac without complaining about his playbook. It is easier said than done.

Don’t go into details of stats or anything, just note what he’s good for and how to make use of it in broad terms. Easier that way ;)

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Jac- 

I like Jac as a role player on my team.

Strengths 

- (1)He has deceptively decent scoring potential that frequently gets over looked on a team full of great scorers. I like to play off center near the mid line on sharks side.

(2) goad + tough hide. I like to force a beater model or a model I don’t want to harass shark or a support model I want to disrupt to come to him toward one of the board edges. They generally aren’t going to one round him and if they can then they aren’t taking someone else that is more important out. But I find that instead of wasting their influence they will go after jac. So the beginning of the next turn it opens up a lot of options if I go first or not. If I go first and they loaded up that model with influence I can push them off the board or I can go for a goal with someone else. If they go first then they have to choose to either stop a goal run or save their guy near the board edge.

(3) pushes for days- used as in #2 above, used to open goal lanes, gain control/gain advantage of scrums, disruption of auras/team senerges. 

I find him to be a great edition and misunderstood model and great role player. I find it is important to have options outside of just goal runs. Pre-nerf shark could dance between scoring and control which allowed other players to shine AND made your opponents have to make choices. Post nerf, shark is still a good piece but against good opponents they already know what you are going to do because you have no other options and I believe that is why Corsair started to become so popular. You could actually knock people out AND score. Jac helps provide answers to a team that usually just asks questions. How do I keep x player away from my scorer? How do I interrupt X teams synergy set up? How can I free up my ball carrier without burning up all his influence? Jac can answer a lot of questions for little influence.

Weaknesses -

(1) no dodges.

(2) in a perfect world his knockdown and double push results would be on 3 instead of 4. 

(3) his model is giving you the two finger F solute. Not very sportsmanlike. 

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Greyscales -

Greyscales is a slippery nuisance. His raw goal threat is a less-than-stellar 17" before playbook dodges, but 2" melee and Where'd They Go? give him the tools to snag a ball out of the biggest clumps and sink in a goal afterwards. 5 TAC with a momentous dodge on 1 and a tackle/2" dodge on 2 are the main results to look for, but it's very reasonable to charge and look towards his momentous Where'd They Go? or use his momentous Ball's Gone! simply as a momentous Tackle. 

Because of his slightly-below-average goal threat, he generally hangs out along one of the wings, using Unpredictable Movement as his main defensive measure to keep enemies away while he waits for an opening. If the enemy team is able to engage him through this, his effectiveness goes down quite a bit, as he'll often need a full 4 INF to tackle the ball and get close enough to the goal to shoot. Needing to spend INF to disengage at the start of his goal run does not make him happy. Furthermore, 4+ DEF/0 ARM and 13 HP make him one of the squishier models in the game once someone gets ahold of him.

Good into: 1" melee // Risky into: fighting teams that can engage him through Unpredictable Movement

Sakana -

Sakana has a solid unsupported 18" goal threat, with the potential for more from playbook dodges. 3/8" KICK is one of the best stats to have. TAC 5 + Anatomical Precision means he'll be hitting his momentous dodge on 1 and Tackle on 2 pretty regularly, and of course his 2" melee is great. His biggest weakness in terms of goal threat is the lack of a buyable dodge, such as Acrobatics or Where'd They Go?, meaning that he cannot split up his movement as effectively as someone like Greyscales.

When not going for goals, he's also able to support a more takeout-oriented Corsair team by applying Weak Point to the important targets each turn. His damage results aren't the most impressive, but he can hit them consistently. With a solid 4+ DEF/1 ARM, above-average 15 HP, and a free counter-attack with Poised, he's not the easiest model to kill either. He doesn't have a 2" reposition until his 4th column, so he won't always be able to completely free himself on that counter-attack, but he forces your opponent to get as close as possible when attacking him.

He won't always be the best choice for your team, but he'll never be the worst. 

Good into: teams with armor // Risky into: none

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Corsair

So according to the fluff Corsair is a "...drunk, overweight, a shadow of his old self". If that is the case I would hate to see what Corsair at his peak rules look like.

In short Corsair is an all-rounder, he can try his hand at a little of everything and likely do it well. He is the Fisherman's only in house source of good momentous damage, he has decent kicking stats, he is loaded with excellent defensive and control tools and he can buff his own team to boot.

What makes Corsair special (and one of the banes of the tournament scene) however is the win conditions he enables. All captains tend to lend themselves to a particular win condition. Some do one well (ie Shark), others are reasonable at two depending on team build (Honour). Corsair on the other hand can comfortably pull off a 2-2 but easily switch up to a 3-0 or a 1-4 depending on the opponent he is running into, and just to make it that little bit harder for opponents he can often do this mid game.

On the weakness front he is slow (fixable by Hag), susceptible to high amounts of focused burst damage (who isn't?) and relatively easy to target with ranged plays but thanks to his and his team's built in versatility he can often leverage his resources to overcome most of the things opponents throw at him which tends to mean that unless the foe comes intentionally packing to counter the Corsair's strengths then he is probably going to be relatively comfortable running into most teams.

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One of the things missed on Jac is that he enables a T1 goal with Salt relatively easily if receiving by use of Get Over Here, bringing Salts goal threat range on T1 from 17" to potentially 24". This makes a 'safer' T1 goal since you are possibly trading 4 points for 1 rather than 2. 

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Salt has a turn 1 goal threat of 21" without Jac. 4" teamwork dodge, 9" sprint, 4" from Where'd They Go? and then a 4" shot.

Get over here is a little less straight forward as the limitations on area taken up by Jac and Salt's 30mm bases and the sad need to go around them rather than through means that although Jac can drag salt forward 7" Salt will then loose an inch or more from his straight line threat to navigate around Jac meaning he will be able to make shots from a starting position of just shy of 27" away from goal.

 

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36 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

Get over here is a little less straight forward as the limitations on area taken up by Jac and Salt's 30mm bases and the sad need to go around them rather than through means that although Jac can drag salt forward 7" Salt will then loose an inch or more from his straight line threat to navigate around Jac meaning he will be able to make shots from a starting position of just shy of 27" away from goal.

Get Over Here! is towards, not directly towards. So Salt can move straight towards goal, if that move takes her closer to Jac.

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16 minutes ago, 6tus said:

Get Over Here! is towards, not directly towards. So Salt can move straight towards goal, if that move takes her closer to Jac.

Good Point, so you can start a little shy of 8" away from Jac who can make an 8" sprint and still be within the 10" of Salts base, that then gives Salt her full 7" and knocks the threat range to 28".

I'ld say that this is a moot point given that the greatest distance between the front of the opposing goal and your deployment line is just shy of 27" so even with a directly towards jog Salt threatens the goal from any where on the development line with Jac around in turn one.

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On 4/4/2018 at 10:08 AM, Banjulhu said:

Corsair

So according to the fluff Corsair is a "...drunk, overweight, a shadow of his old self". If that is the case I would hate to see what Corsair at his peak rules look like.

In short Corsair is an all-rounder, he can try his hand at a little of everything and likely do it well. He is the Fisherman's only in house source of good momentous damage, he has decent kicking stats, he is loaded with excellent defensive and control tools and he can buff his own team to boot.

What makes Corsair special (and one of the banes of the tournament scene) however is the win conditions he enables. All captains tend to lend themselves to a particular win condition. Some do one well (ie Shark), others are reasonable at two depending on team build (Honour). Corsair on the other hand can comfortably pull off a 2-2 but easily switch up to a 3-0 or a 1-4 depending on the opponent he is running into, and just to make it that little bit harder for opponents he can often do this mid game.

On the weakness front he is slow (fixable by Hag), susceptible to high amounts of focused burst damage (who isn't?) and relatively easy to target with ranged plays but thanks to his and his team's built in versatility he can often leverage his resources to overcome most of the things opponents throw at him which tends to mean that unless the foe comes intentionally packing to counter the Corsair's strengths then he is probably going to be relatively comfortable running into most teams.

I liken you to a guild ball professor, that specialises in Fishermen. :)

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6 minutes ago, Selfy said:

I liken you to a guild ball professor, that specialises in Fishermen. :)

I'm one of those sad one and a half guild people. I have Fish and a bit of Union and the bit of union is only playable because back in season 1 got the three man Union box to go with Hemlock and Snakeskin rather than buying Gutter separately, that means over the last four years I have spent far too much time thinking about how to use Fish to beat X (I was there when Salt was crap and Shark was just plain broken).

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Salt

Season 3 brought Salt back into relevance with three changes, the first being the new tap in rule, the second being that mascots can come back after death now and the third was Salt's kick being boosted to 2/4".

From being little more than a ball retrieval tool in Season 2 nearly always overlooked in favour of Tentacles, Salt is now a credible secondary goal threat with a threat range on par with Shark and Greyscales when Jac is not there and a 28" one when Jac is around.

His Def of 5+, Loved Creature and the mascot VP rules generally means opponents wont put him high up on the take out priority list but if they do have a go she will not last long. But if she is taken out she can get back into optimal position very easily thanks to her speed.

She is a good option for Shark lead teams as she provides extra scoring options and much like Greyscales is a wonderful tool against any team that likes to kill the ball thanks to Where'd They Go?.

She will see less play into guilds that like aggressive scrumming football (ie Brewers) but that is less down to her own failings and more because Tentacles is the far better option in those situations.

Remember when using her for ball retrial with just 1Inf that a run and Where'd They Go? covers more ground than sprint does.

 

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3 hours ago, Banjulhu said:

Salt

...Salt is now a credible secondary goal threat...

As of last weekend, Salt is now also the best Fisherman Captain, and works very well with whichever mascot you prefer, whether it be Corsair or Shark... :ph34r:

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Finally had time to sit and update this, so we're getting there!

Still missing Shark, Angel, Hag, Kraken and veteran Siren :)

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So Shark

The walking, scoring negative play experience of Guild Ball.

So Shark has two jobs on a team. Firstly he is a goal scorer (an extremely good one) and secondly he is a control piece. He like to play in the midfield and deep into the opponents half. His goal scoring and footballing is enabled by a monstrous basic stat line and a Character plays that let him (or his fellow fish) move faster and in non-linear ways. Shark can get to where he wants and his threat range on goal is massive when he gets rolling

His control is achieved mostly through Tidal Surge as it can be used to move opponents as well as friendly models around outside of their activation. Boosting his control abilities is his Legendary Play, Caught in a Net. Want to slow a bunch of opponents down to stop them getting to your squishy players or hinder their goal run? Then pop this bad boy and prepare to talk about NPEs for 10 minutes.

Shark's weakness is more down to how people play the game and learn rather than any specific about him. His team only ever has one real win condition, score three goals, and once people get to know his range and his tricks he becomes a lot less scary and more readily countered.

Shark's best matchup are against slow teams who can not pin him down and other teams that skew towards a football focus as he and his team tend to have the tools to play that game better.

 

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I'll take a crack at Hag :)

Hag is a pure support character who generally follows your playmakers around to enhance their speed and support their overall play. Fisher's Reel is her key Character Play and it allows her to make another friendly model make a two inch dodge, which extends threat ranges, helps escape danger, and even fix positioning mistakes. This combines with her Legendary Play, which causes every friendly model within 4" to make a two inch dodge and every enemy model within the same range suffer a two inch push, after which she takes one point of damage for every effected player.

Hag specializes in shifting the fight around to enable her team to maintain the advantage at all times. She assists the fight with a two inch melee and can prove extremely difficult to take out thanks to Fear, which forces your opponent to spend an additional point of influence the first them he or she targets Hag every turn, Shadowlike, which lets her dodge away from threats at the beginning of her activation, and Decoy, a Character play that improves her defence for a single attack. In addition to all this, she's incredibly efficient thanks to Talisman, which allows her to use one cost 1 character play for free every turn.

However, Hag is not a player who effects the game on her own. Her low Tac of 4 and relatively weak playbook do not really give her access to recovering the ball, generating influence, or moving around. In addition, if the enemy team does get through Fear, her Def of 4+ and lack of armor make her liable to go down extremely quickly. She also struggles if the enemy team specializes in AOEs or conditions, considering that these ignore Fear and take advantage of her low defence and lack of health. As a result, Hag must be positioned carefully so that she can support her team with repositioning without getting caught by her opponents.

Strengths: Great movement/positioning support, good combat support, influence efficiency, slippery in combat and frustrating to take out

Weaknesses: Lack of playmaking, squishy after Fear

Good into: Essentially everything

Risky into: Alchemists and Engineers, but neither so much that she shouldn't be picked

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