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Banjulhu

Running Fish into Blacksmiths

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So it is likely I'm going to be facing blacksmiths in the near future and I'm trying to figure out what my core team should be.

Corsair 2-2 seems like a poor choice just because the high Arm will scupper him but a Corsair 3-0 team may just have game.

That said I think Shark will have a better time

I'm looking at the following currently

  • Shark: Goal scoring and screwing up plans with caught in a net.
  • Salt: Ball recovery
  • Sakana: MP generation and secondary goal threat
  • Gutter: MP generation and moving apprentices out of auras
  • Siren: Seductions all day and the good they bring
  • Jac: Lane clearing, aura denial and an achievable KD if Sakana can reduce ARM.

Dropping Jac for Hag and Salt for Tentacles is what I'm currently mulling over but I have no experience of the Blacksmiths to know which is the right way to go.

Anyone have any thoughts or advice?

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Corsair actually has fair game fighting into Smiths as he can push Apprentices out of Sentinel range and murder them without much trouble. 2-2 is not a bad plan as long as you focus on the Apprentices, most of which are going to be coming into you anyway looking to retrieve the ball or score.

I'd also take Tentacles as he has pretty easy Blinds into a lot of Smiths which can ruin their day and remember to be extra careful with Siren as Smiths can field some female heavy teams and she's liable to go down really fast if someone like Cast gets on top of her.

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True, that and the fact that she has really bad counters make me not a huge fan of hers even though she does have a place in some match ups.

If going for a Shark lineup I'd forgo Gutter completely as she's not enough on her own to get you take outs and go for a straight up 3-0 lineup of Shark, Tentacles, Greyscales, Sakana, Jac and Hag. That's depending somewhat on what they draft of course, but the general idea is to keep Geryscales on one corner of the pitch, Sakana on the other corner, and Shark in the center for ball coverage; Tentacles for denial with blind, and Jac and Hag as batteries and for enemy and friendly repositioning.

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So I had my game against Blacksmiths and boy are they a tricky but to crack.

I went for Corsair, Tentacles, Gutter, Sakana, oSiren and Greyscales.

I kicked off into Ferrite, Iron, Hearth, Alloy, Anvil and Sledge. I sent the ball wide to the wing under threat by siren.

For the first time in a long while I spent the first turn without any possession as the Smiths collected with Ferrite and passed back to their line. So instead I used Siren to lure Ferrite into my half and had Corsair and Gutter work her over dropping her to 4 hits. Greyscales was watching the opposite wing as my opponent was moving the ball down to that side. Corsair took a charge from a fully buffed up Sledge and resisted thanks to a defensive stance.

At the end of turn 1 there was a scrum to the left of centre, Anvil, Iron and Hearth in their half and Alloy set up for a goal run in my half at the start of turn 2 but stuck in an in cover Tentacles melee zone (the Smiths had missed the pass to Alloy meaning he had to go collect the free ball halting his turn one run dead).

My opponent won the initiative with Sieze the Initiative but was unable to dislodge Alloy and then ended up with Greyscales also covering him. I used Offside Trap to delay the goal and force extra attacks.

Alloy was forced to attack Tentacles due to his position and fluffed thanks to Arm 1 and cover and then lostthe ball to a counter attack. He won the ball back eventually freed himself from Greyscales but was out of Inf to move on the goal.

Gutter moved to be engaging the KD Ferrite and Sledge and started to hurt them both thanks to Sakana and Corsair supporting but hiding from her melee zone. Ferrite fell, Corsair took some more hits and then Sledge fell to Corsair who moved and used his legendary in the opponent half. Siren wasted Inf by charging and failing to do a damn thing to Alloy. My next move had Greyscales into Alloy which resulted in a Balls Gone and Sakana dodging to the wing and cover. Corsair took more punches to the face but held strong and activation advantage allowed me to freely move Sakana into goal range and score at the end of turn.

I ended up having the initiative at the top of three but the goal kick had dropped the ball deep into the midfield. Siren did a little charge I to Anvil mostly just to get the ball then passed to Gutter who dodged into cover up the field to protect herself and stop the returned Sledge from having a charge on Corsair. Sledge decided to go I to Gutter steal the ball take a damaging counter attack and then kick the ball deep into my half for Alloy. Gutter then deleted him and charged into Ferrite to hold her down. Alloy scores and another max distance goal kick put the ball into the Smith half. The game ended with Sakana using a boosted run to go to the edge of his and Hearth's melee zone, generating a dodge to a position to snap the ball and then shooting.

A very odd game finishing 14-4 which was a lot closer than the score suggests. My game was saved thanks to Corsair just not dying.

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So, a few weeks ago, I tried playing Corsair into Ferrite BS (I'm going to call them BS...). It was a very typical Ferrite lineup, w/ Ferrite, Hearth, and Farris, with their respective apprentices. I just could not get anything going. Alloy kicked to me, on the Kraken side, so I forewent collecting the ball, and prepared to hurt Alloy when he inevitably came in for his goal run - and that's precisely what happened, though he missed his shot, which was too bad. Later, I was able to erase Bolt after he scored. But other than that, nothing worked for me. I realized about halfway through the third turn that I should've never let the masters get into me, as my opponent was able to keep the apprentices semi-safe behind his wall of masters (and Iron). Iron is a BASTARD, btw, when he's in cover and in sentinel. Also... I'm just going to say it: I think Ferrite might be just a bit too good, with her :momGB: on one, able to throw out Disarm and Weak Point at will and Hobbling every damn thing in sight. But, that aside, I think one of my big takeaways from playing into BS is don't leave Anatomical behind. I took neither Sakana and Gutter, and that was a big mistake. That said, I still haven't quite figured Corsair out...

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Sakana and Gutter feel like absolute musts into them just to be able to farm a bit of momentum.

Most of my Fish game only ever relies on the 1st and 2nd column of my players playbook but with the Blacksmiths even that was questionable when not charging.

Target priority is definitely a thing against them but even their "fragile" players come with Def 4+ and Arm 1.

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I might give you some input from a player on the other side as I play the smiths and have quite some games against the fish. 

Corsair, Sakana and Gutter are all definitely a way to go no matter what the opponent chooses. Siren helps a lot as well, Tentacles is a great debuff mascot and is a great to just reposition and engage as appropriate.

 Ideally, you want to play in a similar fashion like the blacksmiths do, Corsair and Kraken up front, ideally dragging in a single master and knocking her/him down, starting a scrum. Sakana deals some damage, weak points stuff and generates some momentum. When the time is right Gutter, that was waiting at a safe distance, comes in and starts scything away. 

You will almost surely concede one easy goal this way but then the Blacksmiths are on such a low HP that you should get at least 2 take outs and completely ruin their synergies and plans and manage your own two goals later on. If the Anvil or Hearth are left on their own they can't do sh*t and Ferrite has to be loaded with and spend a full 5 Inf to achieve anything meaningful. 

 

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I kicked off to Ferrite's side expressly to make sure in the first turn she was on ball collection duty and not free to start doing well everything. I was all prepared to concede the first goal so started to have Corsiar and Gutter kill her and KD her but got lucky with a missed pass to Alloy. It left the Smiths with a trick choice at the start of turn two use Ferrite to get up put some mp up and heal but then lose the ball to the Fish who had a primed set of goal scorers all in the midfield or use Alloy to try and break free but lose Ferrite as soon as Gutter starts putting 6 dice attacks into her.

They chose to do the latter

As an aside is Ferrite pretty much always going to be the Smith's captain I can't see much in the other masters that would make me pick them?

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2 hours ago, Banjulhu said:

As an aside is Ferrite pretty much always going to be the Smith's captain I can't see much in the other masters that would make me pick them?

Furnace is definitely a valid pick into Corsair

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In my limited experience(<10 games) playing into and w/Smith's I think I've realized that Ferrite doesn't intend to do much turn 1. I have been trying to kick in a way that forces Alloy or Iron to retrieve the ball if possible. 

Ferrite seems to spend her turn 1 activation pulling iron forward, but other than that, she runs pretty light. Iron and Alloy seem to be the biggest 1st turn threats and Ferrite is just looking to be somewhere so she can disarm the world at the start of turn 2. 

I haven't played a game with them in it with the new game plan cards, but if you can reasonably assure a 1st activation turn 2, I do think that focusing on her and bringing her low with the intention of finishing her early turn 2 is a valid option. If not though, I think you are better served focusing on alloy and iron. 

I've found that 1" and being capped at 5 keeps Ferrite in check. Obviously disarming the planet is a bad thing to have happen to you, but I believe it's a mitigatable risk. 

The strength of the Blacksmiths seems to be that they have a very spread out threat. They dont have a super solo activation, but they do pick up a reliable variety of activations. Identifying which one (alloy, iron, Ferrite, bolt, and occasionally sledge) is the most dangerous to your game plan on any given turn is going to be the key to playing into them well. 

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I’m a quiet new Guildball Player. In January i started with masons and now i had my first games with shark. Last three games i Played against Blacksmith. Three different Players used the same Squad. These are Ferrite (Capt), Iron, Farris, Bolt, Hearth, Alloy. Their intention was clear, fast movers to ruin sharks game. First Game i played shark, salt, angel, oSiren, jac and greyscales. Angel did nothing, so i changed her to sakana and third game i took hag insted of jac.

I don’t know how to respond to the speed and hitting power with a shark matchup. First game i lost, cause i made mesurement mistake while kicking out with shark, then he ripped my whole team appart. Second game i won, but it felt bad. I shot a last activation goal with shark but in respond he shot a one activation goal with bolt, the rest of the game ran like that. Third game was nearly the same with the difference that he shot a first activation goal with alloy after kicking out. I had the luck that he missed two tappin goals later. But i don’t know how to stop their goal runs, they are so quick, that it needs just one activation after goal kick. In combination with their hitting and kd possibilities it’s very hard. I Always had sakana an greyscales on the sides around the middle line, shark in the middle in max. tap-in range or dodged back to threaten the goal kick, hag/jac, salt and siren in the back-middle.

How do you position shark after the goal, how do you allocate the influence (standart situation). Do You have some tipps? (beside the ones from the « how to shark like pro » Thread)

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I would not bother trying to get Shark into tap in range.

His 4/8" kick is there to give you shot options and allow you to hang around in snap shot range whilst also providing coverage in the midfield.

If your opponent is out to play ball you have to start taking advantage of the Fishes better dodges, Siren's Seduction a d Greyscales' Ball's Gone to stop the opponent having easy return goals.

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I would advise you to not even play Shark versus the smiths. Corsair, even without A&G, is a miles better match up.

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til now i read out if this thread, that the line up should be Corsaire, Tentacles, Gutter, Sakana for sure and then probably Greyscales for more Goal pressure an Siren for the Controlling game. But how would you move an build up the pitch when receiving or kicking.

Would you chose, kicking or receiving? And what would be you're first moves.

Receiving: Normaly you will have Alloy or Ferrite in front of you, making pressure with a possible first activation goal. Or Iron will come later in the game to make his mess with you. Which model would you activate first? Corsaire to pull in the kicking model? Try a blind with tentacles? or taking the ball with greyscales or sakana and make a pass (to who?). What would be you're basic plan for positioning, Corsaire an tentacles in the middle and sakana supporting the scrum or keeping him on a side for more goal pressure.

Sorry, a lot of questions... But i don't see corsaires game plan, insteed of catching apprentices

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Receive for preference and have Greyscales and Sakana out on the flanks to pick the ball up straight away away and get it back into the lines for a bit of passing with the aim to do a last activation goal run with the fast player on the wing that did not collect.

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Same as before but make sure it ends up in either Corsair's or Tentacle's hands so Alloy cant get an easy MP generating tackle.

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So, now i had my first game with corsaire against blacksmiths. I gone with Corsaire, Tentacles, Greyscales, Sakana, OSiren and Gutter.

I received and started with 3 on Greyscales to get the ball, 4 on Corsaire, 4 on Sakana, 1 on Siren and 1 on Gutter. The Influence on Siren and Gutter was a mistake, would be better to give one of them two. I Managed a last activation-Goal with Sakana and pulled in Bolt with Corsaire (had the feeling that Corsaire can’t do much, when you focus on first turn goal, perhaps i just had to allocate him full 6 influence and nothing at Gutter and Siren). Blacksmiths positioned in Front of me for hard beating in second turn.

 

He started with the ball on Farris. But activated another Squaddie to take out the already reduced Gutter. My Siren seuduced Farris for a Pass and a snapshotgoal from Sakana. But Farris missed the pass.

 

Then i made in third turn a second goal with Sakana after a missed goalshot from Farris and took out Bolt. Blacksmiths took out Osiren. Then we stopped, cause the hobby store was closing.

 

Long Story short conclusion. Greyscales is very good against BS with Iron. I played tentacles very poorly. Corsaire and Gutter didn’t do much to Iron and Farris, even with Osiren for a tripple corwd out. So if BS are hiding theyre other apprentices, it becomes tough

He played Ferrite as cpt. With Iron, farris, bolt, furnace and cast. 

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