Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Redtiger7

Counter Charge Discussion

Recommended Posts

How useful does everyone think counter charge is? I've never actually seen it get used, as once the opponent sees it's there, they counter it (basing or KDing the counter charge model) So does it work, or is it's magic that it forces your opponent into doing more work that they may not have wanted to do?

Your thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watch any game from the world champs - everyone forgot about Taters counter charge !

I think its main use is that it forces your opponent to think, which burns down their clock, or it forces sub-optimal positioning from them.

Every once in a while people will forget it - bizarrely normally in a Masons mirror match !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counter charge eats clock time, I would not be surprised if it's 5+ minutes per game.

It's not that hard to avoid, even with the double counter charge bubble of Brick and Marbles, but it might mean you do an extra activation before your goal run or whatever you need to stop the counter charge from preventing and when engaging the counter charge models you might have to position a model in a way you don't want to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counter-Charge is not optional to play around. It means you can't do what you intended to, and that often leaves sub-optimal or wasted activations, positions, etc. It leaves models vulnerable or slows down a game plan.

Just because it never fires, doesn't mean it's not affecting the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counter Charge affects where your opponent can place models and (as others have said) applies clock pressure because most folks will check the distance which adds another measurement when planning out a turn. 

It impacts the board state even if It never gets proc'd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play mostly with Masons and think that counter charge is really amazing. You can place Brick in a central position and do not use a single influence on him in the whole game, and he is still contributing. In this way you have more influence to fuel your captain. 

If the opponent decides to engage Brick to avoid counter charge, he has 2 options:

- engage with a weak/not beating model. Then he is risking an easy take out as soon as Honour/Hammer helps a bit

-engage with a tough guy. Then he is "wasting" that model on Brick, who can take a beating and last for some time, and not pressing weaker models like Flint, Tower or Mallet

In any case, it is a favorable situations for Masons. For me Brick is one of the autoinclude models. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Beric said:

I play mostly with Masons and think that counter charge is really amazing. You can place Brick in a central position and do not use a single influence on him in the whole game, and he is still contributing. In this way you have more influence to fuel your captain. 

If the opponent decides to engage Brick to avoid counter charge, he has 2 options:

- engage with a weak/not beating model. Then he is risking an easy take out as soon as Honour/Hammer helps a bit

-engage with a tough guy. Then he is "wasting" that model on Brick, who can take a beating and last for some time, and not pressing weaker models like Flint, Tower or Mallet

In any case, it is a favorable situations for Masons. For me Brick is one of the autoinclude models. 

I agree with this. Recently switched to Masons and man, the amount of clock it takes for opponents to measure the 6" bubble. 

 

Brick is an auto include. Marbles is great too, even better without the "Brace for Impact" plotcard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counter Charge is a massive board control tool, it's best used on the clock however. Playing casual games can often lead to 10 minutes of an opponent just using widgets etc etc to plan out the perfect move to engage said model and be where he wants or be outside of 6" or end somewhere out of LoS but in 6".

All of this in a environment where time is a resource it massively drains the opponent of it and once there clock is down and they know that it can lead to mistakes, like actually triggering a counter charge. As a Hunters player double counter charge always drains my clock as I next to no buy able dodges so it forces me a lot of the time to engage Brick / Marbles, stay out of the range etc. 

Knowing where to position your models with counter charge is another important part in getting the most of the models. If you put them too far up people will engage them and shut down the ability. Put them too far back and people will be to engage your models / do what they want without worrying about it. Knowing where to put them to project the threat in a way that covers your models that are yet to activate but not too far they get tied up is a skill in its self. 

Lastly a lot of the time I used to use Compound and think "Well jeez, people just play around him that's useless" but the fact he is forcing people to play around is often just as good as counter charging. People force to engage him and lose 1 dice on there kick can cause missed goals, it takes time to position around the bubble etc. 

Counter charge let alone double counter charge is a really strong ability to have on the table, it does take some practice and skill to get the most out of it however :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counter-charge is also exponentially more useful if your opponent has few (or no) 2" melee models- they have to be SO much more precise in their planning when they can't reach out and engage your CC models from a safer distance.   A lot of Butchers models, for example, absolutely hate Counter Charge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The power of Counter Charge isn't in using it, but just having it. Think nuclear weapons in the Cold War - never used, but deterred both sides from going too far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And even if it doesn't happen often, games where it does go off it is monumental. 

I've seen games in the bag lost to a single counter charge. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What prompted this thought was using Tenderizer. HE's pretty much the atypical player that does nothing, yet who's presence creates problems for the other team. I'd lost that game, and pondered if things would have gone better had I not used that team slot for him: would it have been better had I put in another player that would be more active in the game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimate mind game is someone walking into counter change range and not declaring it but pointing it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×