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Initial thoughts after first proxy game

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So after getting a game or two with the fun new little toys, I figured I would write down thoughts and knee jerk reactions. 

1- Piper is very good with out of activation scoring. He can also be the setup piece for destroying an opponents model with mom. double push on 2. Pushed several models to their doom against Pelage and Scourge. His Heroic is just as good as his Legendary. If timed correctly, not even greyscales can get away from him. 

I used the all 6 ratcatchers and could tell that Bonesaw would be amazing in the list for his scoring abilities. Skulk is pretty nasty in the lineup as well, although his 2/6 kick is not optimal. 

2- Scourge and Pelage are murderers and make people not want to be near them. For all her abilities, Pelage can sure a lot of damage. Between singling out a model and then snaring them or the opponent taking 3 damage, she is really carrying her weight. Tac 7 and +1 damage are a thing on the hulking monstrosity that is scourge, just be wary of opponents using him as a vending machine for momentum. 

3- Miasma can be pretty nasty as a back line model throwing out rats conditions. I didnt use her that much because other models were in the thick if things but can definitely get things done. 

Overall i thought a very fun team.

What are your experiences/ thoughts on these lil guys

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So played into hunters and my plan was 2 goals 2 takeouts. I used a combination of Skulk ball hunting and Piper using Reverie to get in quick goals as well as Scourge and Pelage threatening takeouts in the middle of the board. Miasma was there to back up the damage dealers. Next time I will try Bonesaw for Miasma and see how it plays with Skulk being more at home on his side of the pitch. 

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Played 3 games, only model I haven’t tested is graves 

Bonesaw is amazing, especially with reverie on the table.

pelage is amazing, even with only one attack she print so money. She’s surprisingly hard to kill even at 10 boxes.  She tends to just hang around near scrums to cause damage with passives

Scourge is the dude though. I’ve had him do 18 damage activations in multiple games. Took a bit of setup with singled out and knock downs but 18 damage- seriously 

 

miasma is sweet with decent ranged and melee ability. Again, she wants to be on the edge of a scrum with virulent strain and take a breather. Also, rataclysm is phenomenal.

 

skulk ironically, I’m finding hard to find space for. He’s amazing and has seen a huge amount of game time with my morts. That said, when there are so many amazing options, he’s just missing out.

 

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Just got my first game. It was vs To Blacksmiths trying to brawl. Burnish, Cast, Hearth, Alloy, Furnace (C), and Cinder. I took out Hearth (with snacking), Alloy, And scored. I had Cinder and Cast within reach of dead and my opponent conceded. This was turn three. Every model on the board, aside from Alloy who returned at the top of three, had disease.

 

I'm in love. Scourge plays like a Butcher. Super dangerous but needs some set-up. Pillage is great for that set-up and is annoying to counter attack. Miasma is amazing. I found good effect charging in, scoring and letting that -1 tac do some work but she seems to really want to be just behind the line. Skulk seems good but to get the most out him messes with my order of activations. I might swap him for Bonesaw. Didn't do much work with Piper, but having Reverie around really makes things interesting

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Also just had my first game. I played the original 6 versus the scoring Blacksmiths. I had to kick and kicked with Piper. I didn't fully load Skulk for both his CharPlays and that was a mistake as that allowed Alloy to score. I used the rest of the turn to surround Alloy with my players and reveried Scourge up the pitch. I hid the ball on Pelage on the corner (was the only player that was not yet committed to the middle). At the end of the turn Scourge whacked Alloy twice but couldn't kill him with these 2 hits. I moved away from Alloy and KD'd and diseased Iron, taking his 4 Inf out of the action. I had easy momentum advantage and started turn two by knocking Iron down again and snack breaking Alloy. The next turns where mostly Pelage keeping the ball away from the Blacksmiths and Scourge and Miasma throwing out damage. I lost Scourge to Iron/Ferrite but with "Get back in there" I was able to get him immediately back into the game and take out Iron. I lost the ball to Alloy but he couldn't get the ball away and Piper took it back. Blacksmiths had a hard time taking the ball from Piper who was in cover and had Skulk providing a Crowd out. At the end I had the option to win with a Pass/Dodge/Reverie goal from Piper to Skulk, but I instead went for the snack break takeout on a Ferrite that was surrounded, snared and on 9 health. I had lost Scourge and Miasma in addition to the goal from Alloy so it ended 12:8 with 5 takeouts for me.

I had to kick so I took Skulk instead of Bonesaw. The other 5 are a lock for me. Graves2 I will probably take instead of Skulk, if I have an opponent that I really want to bash (Shark Fish, etc.) but I will have to test if Skulk is also better in these matchups.

Things I learned/have to improve:

  • I had to use Pelage to kill the ball which was a huge waste. I should prepare for that more and have Skulk in a position to kill the ball. I really missed the opportunity for Pelage in the middle.
  • Rataclysm is great, I gave Miasma each turn 2 Inf, should probably give her 4 instead.
  • I didn't use Piper to full effect, didn't use Legendary, Heroic or "Pay the Piper" because I was more to the side to help with ball killing/retrieval. Getting the most out of Piper takes a lot of practice.

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50 minutes ago, Redtiger7 said:

Piper + Boinesaw = crazy scoring. Going to be nuts for those who have both guilds 

I just bought the second Mortician box and I have the Ratcatchers on preorder.  Piper + Bonesaw was one of the first things I wanted to test. Am I right to think that Bonesaw can activate first, use his heroic, and then Piper can get him to sprint and make a shot? Allowing Bonesaw to move through enemies? If so that is an awesome little interaction. 

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Yes, that works. But is not so easy on the first turn. You need 1 MOM to shoot, you want 1 MOM for bonus time (because you probably will be in the melee zone of the player you ran through and don't want to risk the parting blow and Meditation does not work out of activation) and 1 MOM for the heroic.

The pass to Bonesaw will get you 1 MOM but getting 2 more is risky as your other reliable kickers are Miasma and Pelage, which are probably spread out to cover more places to retrieve the ball. It is easiest if Bonesaw is the player collecting the ball and passing it to the next kicking station while also being upfield.

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I've gotten 3 games in with them, and I'm in love. Morts were my first guild and this team definitely feels like playing Morticians. My line up so far has been Piper, Squeak, Bonesaw, Skulk, Scourge, and Pelage.

Piper is really strong, Reverie might be the best character play in the game. The back of his card is just as good, he's so flexible. I'm also a huge fan of Pelage, 10 health is squishy but she has consistently been a thorn in my opponents side. She's a great alpha strike piece because she always does something, is a pain to get rid of, and a legit goal threat with Reverie. Scourge has been solid in my games as well, his dmg is solid by himself and with singled out those wraps get nasty. Reverie gives him a 16" threat range, he is an unavoidable threat if I Kick off and strong last activation.

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27 minutes ago, thehydrogenator said:

I've gotten 3 games in with them, and I'm in love. Morts were my first guild and this team definitely feels like playing Morticians. My line up so far has been Piper, Squeak, Bonesaw, Skulk, Scourge, and Pelage.

Piper is really strong, Reverie might be the best character play in the game. The back of his card is just as good, he's so flexible. I'm also a huge fan of Pelage, 10 health is squishy but she has consistently been a thorn in my opponents side. She's a great alpha strike piece because she always does something, is a pain to get rid of, and a legit goal threat with Reverie. Scourge has been solid in my games as well, his dmg is solid by himself and with singled out those wraps get nasty. Reverie gives him a 16" threat range, he is an unavoidable threat if I Kick off and strong last activation.

Do you feel the disease condition is a problem with Scourge and no Miasma? 

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3 hours ago, Polipotent said:

Do you feel the disease condition is a problem with Scourge and no Miasma? 

Not particularly, he starts with disease and as long as you don't get knocked down you're good. It does force you to KD on the first swing if your opponent counter attacks with someone that can KD easily. But he has an accesible KD himself, even against Def 5 models if he charges. They tend to generate momentum easily I've found, so you can stand him up if things go south.

 

Farmer's is probably an unplayable match up for him though with Millstone, Peck and Grange running around. Stay far away from sturdy models generally and just focus on squishies.

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SFG stated in their blog post the following :

"This leads to everyone on the Pitch slowly losing health and games ending in a flurry of desperate goals and take outs. In this way, the Disease condition almost represents a unique ‘scenario’ when playing with or against the Ratcatchers. Both teams are going to have to change their tactics to have a chance of victory!"

Knowing that most games last for 3 to 4 turns and disease really starts from turn 2, the one damage a turn hardly seems an issue.

What is your experience with the disease condition ? Is it worth something as a strategy or is it just a gimmick ? 

The only real bonus point I can think is that it enforces KD. Or you forfeit your movement or you need 1 more MOM to stand up and move.

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We focus on KD because it's the most obvious condition impacted by disease condition.

But don't forget other conditions like poison / fire / Bleed.

If, due to disease, you can't remove those conditions, you're going to lose each turn 2, 3, 4 even 7 HP each turn !

 

So against an Smoke lead Alchemist team for example, but even butchers, morticians or brewers, disease will heavily impact the game !

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3 hours ago, Alrik31 said:

So against an Smoke lead Alchemist team for example, but even butchers, morticians or brewers, disease will heavily impact the game !

That is indeed an interesting catch on the disease condition. The Ratcatchers are the biggest victims of their own feature. 

Thx for pointing that out. I will choose Bonesaw and vGraves a lot more instead of the 2 disease figures against condition heavy teams.

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20 minutes ago, alopex said:

That is indeed an interesting catch on the disease condition. The Ratcatchers are the biggest victims of their own feature. 

Thx for pointing that out. I will choose Bonesaw and vGraves a lot more instead of the 2 disease figures against condition heavy teams.

Ratcatchers have access to poison, bleed and snared themselves in addition to Knockdown. So that's more conditions than a smoke team can give out.  Unsurprisingly, Ratcatchers have access to the most conditions, so can make best use of their disease condition, if you want to go that way.

I've not played ratcatchers, but I've tried Crucible in a smoke team, and when she worked it was a great momentum drain on the opposition. (getting her to the position to do that was more the problem), so I can see the potential of building a team to disease the opposition and apply other conditions for the slow burn (so a little like the smoke team plan, but not quite as at range, but with the additional penalty of costing extra momentum to remove). But its the momentum cost that is the strength of Disease to look at I think.

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Yay first game last night. Went with the basic 6, despite wanting to try out Bonesaw. 

Think I messed a few things up early game, where I should have been using Miasma and Pelage to spread more conditions around. Still managed to get a decent attrition game going though, using Rataclsym, random attacks and Desease to keep opponent in check.

Got some really nice moves and tricks, loving the dilemma mechanics, eager for another game now!

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Just finished my last event before rat catchers drop. Time to get some serious practice in. 

Graves2 with diseased on him is a monster first activation. Charge in, kd. Grave digger then they suffer diseased so no standing up. Next step, 4 pt take out from scourge. 

I think rats can actually play quite a violent game with graves, scourge, pelage and miasma.  Piper can reset scrums at will and with 3 2” reach models plus pelage having sudo 2”. 

And then you still have 3 decent models to feed the ball to and reverie.

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So, got my first game in with that lineup tonight vs vet rage

he played rage, the snake, minx, decimate, harry and hemlocke

i won the roll and chose to receive.  He kicked off with rage and put it right out on the wing meaning it had to be scourge to retrieve (oops from me)

Scourge retrieved and passed back to pelage to start the line.  I moved graves up and minx managed to get marked target on him. Miasma walked right up and threw rataclysm on rage.  Lots more moving, lots more jockeying for position.  My last activation was piper with the ball. The plan was to pass to miasma to dodge her back. Then I looked again and realised she was comfortably in goal threat. Pass, dodge, reverie - 4-0. He kicked the ball back out to decimate.

rage charged into vet graves engaged by squeak and pelage dealing a bunch of damage after a failed counter attack. 

 

He he won the initiative and sent decimate to score and I kicked the ball to open space on the right side of the pitch. His first mistake letting scourge go in to deal 12 damage to burst him down. Didn’t get the wrap until my last attack unfortunately so just got the heal. 

I turned and started with the rest of my team to lay the hurt into decimate. Harry ended up knocking miasma down and that’s where I made my mistake. Piper activated before miasma could stand up and stopped my goal run. And I realised after I’d legendaried and pushed minx away. So piper went in and killed decimate bringing the game to 8-4.

Turn 3 I got greedy assuming piper would score off miasma first activation and didn’t think though allocation. Loaded up graves on 3 hp and left scourge naked.  Then proceeded to fail miserably to get 2 successes on minx. Minx did some stabbing, I managed to get some damage out with pelage but overall, a pretty mopey turn which was all on me. He managed to get 2 take outs to bring it to 8-8.

I somehow won first activation next turn after he played the singled out card. Scourge walked up and finished minx off and did 7 pts to finish off hemlocke. 

 

Mvp scourge!

 

I was mind blown by the goal run from miasma and it caught me off guard. On paper I still knew the team could sink goals. Just didn’t realise that turn one goals were still that easy.  Pass dodge, sprint and shoot is 17” for 3 players, 18” for pelage.  It was actually really weird scoring while forming a scrum on my side of the pitch.

 

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5 minutes ago, Mattyg2787 said:

Didn’t get the wrap until my last attack unfortunately so just got the heal.

Doesn't matter, still gives the bonus VP:

 

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I also had two more games. I received vs. Hunters so I brought Bonesaw and he was great. Shot 2 goals and missed a snapshot. Lost that one 10:12 that came very close when I missed the snack kill on Fahad before losing Bonesaw to Poison.

The second game I kicked against Blacksmiths and I played Graves for that match. I missed a crucial >> with Piper so I couldn't complete my goal run with Piper. Instead, I went brawling and ended the game with a snack kill on Ferrite (had killed someone else with Gravedigger before) 12:4.

 

Things I learned from the games:

  • Graves is very good and with his ARM2 he is an excellent ball killer against Strikers with low TAC. Parked him next to an obstruction and and that posed big problems.
  • My teams will be:
    • Always include Piper, Squeak, Miasma, Scourge, Pelage
      • Only exception is Alchemists where I would play without disease
    • If I receive, I take Bonesaw
    • If I kick, I take Graves
      • I only take Skulk if I really think he will help in that matchup. Default is Graves.
  • Always kick with Piper
  • When kicking, the first activation should be Pelage sprinting up the field close to where Piper is
    • Piper is an excellent threat on the ball, not on the goal. You need someone to pass the ball to and immediately threaten the goal with Reverie.
  • When receiving, have Pelage on one side, Bonesaw on the other but still relatively in the middle and Miasma further out on Bonesaw's side.
    • If possible, collect the ball with Bonesaw and kick it to Miasma/Pelage/Squeak
    • If kicked to Squeak, drop the ball on Miasma/Pelage and have them kick it to Piper
    • Last activation is Piper kicking it to Bonesaw and Reverie for the goal.

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18 minutes ago, Mootaz said:

Doesn't matter, still gives the bonus VP:

 

YES!!!

 

on the lineup, as someone who loves bonesaw (and plays him a lot in morticians) I don’t think rats need him.  

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I got my first proxy game in during our Solthecius campaign with Piper, Squeak, Miasma, Scourge, Pelage and Bonesaw against Burnish Blacksmiths.

 I lost 12-10 after being at 1-10 halfway the second turn.

The Rats kicked off with Piper, dropping the ball just in front of the Blacksmiths. They tried to create a cage around the ball, leaving a free ball just in front of the goal. After some set up, Piper went in and disrupted the entire cage to score a first turn goal. It also gave a lot of Mom. The only drawback was Burnish Flame Belching Miasma and Scourge twice (first mistake, I forgot that Scourge has tough hide and could have avoided 2 DMG). I finished the turn with Rataclysm on Burnish and Cinder.

Turn 2 started with an auto-initiative for me and Piper being in the middle of the Smiths grabbed the ball and scored again. Burnish in return delivered another 3 Flame Belches (killing Squeak in the process) and because he had used his legendary as captain, Cinder automatically had Reinforced plating. The campaign-rules gave 3 extra influence and 3 extra momentum to the bottom tier players. My opponent used the Mom to avoid any damage to Cinder when I used Rataclysm. This would have killed her. Scourge attacked Burnish to kill him. When Cinder had been successful this would have been the end of it but the opposite happened. Because of the extra influence my opponent could attack Piper with 4 Smiths. The last one was enough to kill Piper.

Turn 3 was the end for the Rats. My opponent gained initiative and sprinted Burnish back in. Another 2 Flame Belch was enough to both kill Scourge and Miasma at the same time. The field was open to add a goal on top. To finish everything Piper was killed a second time. And this was my second big mistake. Haunted melody uses the jog of the opponent when he runs towards you, not your own jog. So, I made a mistake of 2 inch, him not being in range and me not able to kill him (agreed the dice had to be very favorable to succeed but if you don't try...)

It was a super game and without the campaign extras, I would have won in turn 2. My general impression is that the Rats are more difficult to play than the Morticians. Because they are so mobile you must plan really in advance with contingency plans in place or you end up in the middle of nowhere. A second thing is that they are a bit weak. Heavy melees are deadly and against ranged they struggle. All things you can avoid mostly but it needs a lot of planning. Disease was more of a hindrance except for Scourge, he got his bonus DMG.

Another mistake was that I didn't have a backup plan for Bonesaw once Piper was gone. A last mistake, because no other guild I play has the problem, is that I forgot to heal more often.

I hope they are available at Salute so that I can buy them.

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1 hour ago, alopex said:

And this was my second big mistake. Haunted melody uses the jog of the opponent when he runs towards you, not your own jog.

Haunted melody never uses your own jog, it is an "additional advance". You always have your standard advance. So you can Haunt someone and they say you should jog to them. After you do that, you still have your own standard advance and can jog/run/charge as you wish.

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