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Banjulhu

Post-Errata Corsiar Team and Tactics Ponderings

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So I have been mulling it over what the core of Corsair's team should be now that there is no A&G to take for damage and the Game Plans are a thing.

Now I don't think a 3-0 game should ever be the main plan for a Corsair team and I don't think the team should be built with that in mind but with a lot of decent and fast kickers it's not exactly out of the realms of possibility.

As far as I can tell the best option available is to just drop in Gutter and have the core team be Corsair, Tentacles, Sakana and Gutter with the last two slots going to two of Greyscales, Hag and oSiren depending on the opponent and who is kicking.

The other fish players available to my mind either don't bring enough to the table or the models listed above already do what they can do better or the same but with added bonuses.

So the question becomes how to actually use the team? Gutter does put out momentous damage but not like A&G did so that means either giving more Inf to her and Corsair or possibly pulling another team mate into the scrum to support.

Either way this leaves less resources one way or another to go out and score goals.

So is the initial aim to have Sakana try to get an early goal whilst Corsair and Gutter control the centre of the pitch then pull him back and lean on Siren or Greyscales to retrieve and score a 2nd whilst the core of the team goes into murder mode?

Now Sakana has decent enough capacity to get out of the scrum so this is where I could see the capacity to have him run off and be a 3rd goal threat early in turn three.

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A previous thread mentioned using Fangtooth, who I am on the fence with (I have memories of my opponents farming Kraken, this could be the same deal...) but I personally dropped A&G from my roster before the errata and tried gutter a few times, but always found the inf that I gave her would be better used elsewhere. Her 2 momentous dmg is reliable, but I usually had too many buddies around to warrant a good scything blow. I have found that in some cases, with oSiren and Corsair, I can set up a kill with Corsair wrapping and getting a TO all by himself. It's not always the case, there are some teams that this can be incredibly difficult to do this to, so I will try to pivot to goals. My usual six are: Corsair, Tentacles, Sakana, Greyscales, Hag, and oSiren. Shark and vet Siren switch in depending on the match up.

But to me Gutter seems to be the go-to for momentous damage. Fish can easily get crowd out support, and I just need to set her up much more carefully in order to get scything blow off. I might experiment with her a bit more. She has good movement and a decent kick, and I have had her go and score goals before as well, so that fits in nicely.

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I'm trying to work out if two take-out and two goals is still something Corsair can do into most team or do we have to potentially build more three goal teams and have Gutter on the side for squishier teams where you can get good returns for Inf used in a scrum.

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Corsair can still get 2 takeouts against most teams just fine.  Gutter does well at dealing chunks of dmg in scrum that Corsair sets up.  The issue is that he now has no answer for tough hide. 

A&G was overkill in a lot of situations, but he was actually mandatory for some matchups. I honestly don't see how a Corsair team manages to go 2-2 against Masons, Engineers, or Brewers.  If your opponent smartly jams his tough hide models forward, you will not kill them, it's just not happening. 

The straight swap of Gutter for A&G will do fine against guilds like Hunters or Butchers, where the 2" reach is more valuable than +1 dmg. 

I haven't had the time to do the legwork on what the final 6 is, but I think you start with Corsair, Tentacles, Hag, and Gutter.  The 5th slot is going to be one of the Sirens, I think it's worth considering both of them again as each can be big matchup issues. And then the last slot is going to be between Sakana and Jac (Greyscales too if that's your personal preference). 

This is the first time I'd consider leaving Sakana at home in a long long time.  But I think in matchups where vSiren is used, Jac might be the better compliment.  His heroic helps non-strikers score, and having him and Hag on a team is just silly.  Without any dmg buffs, you have to lean hard into the attrition play, and unpacking your enemy's set up a couple times can go a long way.  That lineup also has fairly straightforward allocation, as Hag and Jac will mostly battery Corsair, Siren and Gutter.  

If you do include Sakana, and are receiving, your first turn should absolutely be bent towards scoring a turn 1 goal. I find that's a good way to get tentacles his Blind inf and can be very helpful in certain matchups. The issue is going to be dealing with strong ball killing. But the danger zone of Corsair and Siren usually make it a little hard to hide. 

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The only thing that's changed is Corsair will want to avoid Hammer / Ballista now as Gutter chucks at chewing through Tough Hide (as does Corsair). That's all the changed, Corsair still plays the same game as he did into all the other match ups you would play him into anyway. 

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56 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

The only thing that's changed is Corsair will want to avoid Hammer / Ballista now as Gutter chucks at chewing through Tough Hide (as does Corsair). That's all the changed, Corsair still plays the same game as he did into all the other match ups you would play him into anyway. 

Gutter will not put out the same damage as A&G though. That drop in damage is going to be the difference between a take out and a model surviving and there are are more than just tough hide models that will be benefiting from that.

The intent with Corsair may be the same but he will not pull it off anywhere near as reliably.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

Gutter will not put out the same damage as A&G though. That drop in damage is going to be the difference between a take out and a model surviving and there are are more than just tough hide models that will be benefiting from that.

The intent with Corsair may be the same but he will not pull it off anywhere near as reliably.

Ehh your'e playing Corsair into things that can't outfight / scrum him (Alchemists, Hunters, Morticians, Blacksmiths, Ratcatchers) will normally always bring 14 health players. Gutter does more then enough damage to handle Corsairs good match ups. 

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On 3/21/2018 at 9:38 AM, ForestRambo said:

The only thing that's changed is Corsair will want to avoid Hammer / Ballista now as Gutter chucks at chewing through Tough Hide (as does Corsair). That's all the changed, Corsair still plays the same game as he did into all the other match ups you would play him into anyway. 

So are Engineers a Shark match up now? I get that they're tough for Corsair to take out, but he still seems like the best answer to Ballista, especially if you get Kick em While They're Down. This also seems like one of Shark's roughest match ups, the only worse one being Obulus. So why is everyone avoiding Corsair here?

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15 minutes ago, Penguin Warrior said:

So are Engineers a Shark match up now? I get that they're tough for Corsair to take out, but he still seems like the best answer to Ballista, especially if you get Kick em While They're Down. This also seems like one of Shark's roughest match ups, the only worse one being Obulus. So why is everyone avoiding Corsair here?

I'm not exactly trying to avoid Corsair. I'm just trying to figure out where his limitations are now more apparent and able to be capitalised on by opponents.

I agree about Ballista, but in the same way that Fish are there to be a complete nightmare for Brewers, Engineers may be there to be a complete nightmare for Fish.

As an aside I miss the days when Shark was the bane of Obulus teams. Good times.

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The problem I have with Corsair into Ballista is it's very easy for the Engineers team to kill Gutter and once she's down the game is terrible for Corsair. 

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Had a rough game with Corsair vs Ballista, in part due to trying to take out Hoist (I know). Took Corsair, Tentacles, Hag, oSiren, Gutter and Greyscales. Toss up between Greyscales/Sakana for that last spot, with Sakana allowing better setup with weak point and Greyscales offering better ball holding ability, and in the end I went Greyscales. I was playing against Ballista, Mother, Hoist, Ratchet, Velocity, Colossus.

Colossus and Ballista (and Hoist) are pretty much no go targets now without A&G. That leaves only Veocity and Ratchet for TOs. I ended up losing Corsair to a Ballista TO but killing Velocity before she could do much. Greyscales scored a goal, managed to control the ball and eventually finish off Hoist. oSiren got a seduced off on a nimble Velocity and took the initiative to finish with a goal next turn. 

Having to pick your targets is very difficult now, as Ratchet is often well hidden by the engis, and you can sink an entire turn and more into trying to take out Hoist or Ballista.

 

 

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