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Zozo

Against other guilds

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Hello everybody!

I would be very interested in your opinion of the other guilds, which are the greatest threats to us and why? :)

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Hunters, especially Theron seems really brutal against Blacksmiths. And with that same notion Morticians, Obulus. Low df throughout the team means you're not having much at all control over the course of the game and it's pretty free pickings for them. Playing straight into their strengths. Just a first impression though. 

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1 hour ago, Furnace said:

Hunters, especially Theron seems really brutal against Blacksmiths. And with that same notion Morticians, Obulus. Low df throughout the team means you're not having much at all control over the course of the game and it's pretty free pickings for them. Playing straight into their strengths. Just a first impression though. 

Very interesting opinion, thank you! :)

And what do you think, what can we do against Alchemist, especially a Smoke team? There are a lot of AOEs, and we haven't got high DEF :-/

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I'm not familiar with Alchemists but there was just a post over their side yesterday about Blacksmiths being one of their worst pairings. Maybe something to do with high armor? They can't get through that at all. Also Smiths can play a pretty brutal ball game, so I reckon Smoke struggles to get the ball back from the Smiths and won't be able to play out the takeout game she wants faster than a footballing Smiths can score goals. Pure speculation on my part however. 

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I asked it because I had two matches against them at the last weekend. I won the games with clock, but against Smoke, the first two round were hell...four of my teammates had a lot of damage from AOEs, and I really didn't know what I had to do :-/ So I pick up this question here :)

EDIT: but it is true that i ain't a skilled blacksmith player, this were my 3rd and 4th games with them :)

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My experience is that games 3 and 4 are still a clustercuddle of what is going on. :) but I have smiths too. OK queue though, so I am extremely interested in your thoughts and experiences with them. Please post up your thoughts as you go on? 

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Well, the first match was a classic line up from Alchimist (Midas, Naja, Vitriol, Calculus, Mercury and oKata). I thought my opponent want to brought Smoke against me at first, so I picked a football line up :) Ferrite, Iron, Alloy, Hearth, Burnace and Cinder. And the exciting thing that Burnace was my captain, because I like the "projekt Hell" at his legendary turn (3 3" AOE, muhaha). My opponent was a rookie player to with Alchimist, but the other hand he has a very good emotion for this game, and really see the tricks of this game. Returning to the game, neither he nor me kicked a goal, and it was my biggest fault. Instead to go and try to beat his team out, I should have tried to made as much goals as I could w Alloy and Ferrite. After all, his time was passed, so I won 12:8 or 12:10 maybe. The biggest experience for me from this match that if you pick a football line up, never ever try to do TO :) If I had done everything to scored goals... maybe next time.

The second match was the real madness for me. The first turn I felt myself in the Hell, and I thought I had as many chances as a snowball in hell. His lineup: Smoke, Flask, vetKata, Calculus, Mercury and Vitriol. I wanted to try the models that I never play with before, so I picked the Farris, Bolt, Anvil, Sledge, Alloy, Hearth lineup :) Bolt is a very funny and interesting model, but I absolutely didn't feel the style of Farris. Anvil and Sledge were a good pair, but I think there are better masters and apprentices in this guild. The biggest mistake in this game for me that I hadn't got any idea what I wanted to play. Football, or made a lot of TO. After all, I won this game with clock too, but if my opponent was fast enough, I hadn't got any chance.

So I have to practice a lot, and after I have a theory, in a match I have to insist on it :)

//I hope it was understandable that I wrote, my English is not perfect :) //

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For alchs, win initiative, opt to go last, burnish reduction away conditions. 

I think Farris has the best option  to control vkat. 

Alchemist's can't effectively hide the ball or scrum into Smiths to get anywhere otherwise. 

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4 hours ago, Morganrl said:

For alchs, win initiative, opt to go last, burnish reduction away conditions. 

I think Farris has the best option  to control vkat. 

Alchemist's can't effectively hide the ball or scrum into Smiths to get anywhere otherwise. 

Why do you think Farris has the best option to control vetKata? :) (and what does it means "opt"? :) )

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Just now, Zozo said:

Why do you think Farris has the best option to control vetKata? :) (and what does it means "opt"? :) )

vKat can basically 'Witness me' any damaged apprentice as well as a master if brought to cca 10 health if with a condition (not hard to do with all those AOEs). Threat range of 10" means he's also faster than any natural player of ours except  farris.. So engaging it in order to prevent such a charge is cruical.

I've played this scenario (kicking off with Farris vs Alchs with smoke/calculus/mercury/vKat twice now and feels the best optoin so far.

Otherwise, any apprentices naturally capable of "releasing the ball" at range are very appreciated versus Smoke alchemists. Otherwise they just hold the ball, spray damage and conditions everywhere, and make two Witness me's and a final 20" smoke goal.

So when kicking off Hearth,Alloy,Furnace, Cast, Farris, Bolt is the line up that can release the ball from smoke/vitriol and is reasonably fast. Two of the apprentices can scatter the ball at range, Farris can legendary. When receiving, Burnish can control vKat's range as well and is an amazing midfield piece so my lineup changes to Hearth, Alloy, Furnace, Cinder (to retrieve the ball after 1st goal), Burnish (Captain) , Cast.

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vkat into Farris only has a 60%chance to make his double push, and needs to do it twice to get her out of the charge path. 

Farris has a 73.5% chance to hit her double push to get him back btb on the counter attack. 

If she starts btb with him and in between any of his targets he won't be able to move her, KD her and charge someone else. 

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24 minutes ago, Rugi said:

vKat can basically 'Witness me' any damaged apprentice as well as a master if brought to cca 10 health if with a condition (not hard to do with all those AOEs). Threat range of 10" means he's also faster than any natural player of ours except  farris.. So engaging it in order to prevent such a charge is cruical.

I've played this scenario (kicking off with Farris vs Alchs with smoke/calculus/mercury/vKat twice now and feels the best optoin so far.

Otherwise, any apprentices naturally capable of "releasing the ball" at range are very appreciated versus Smoke alchemists. Otherwise they just hold the ball, spray damage and conditions everywhere, and make two Witness me's and a final 20" smoke goal.

So when kicking off Hearth,Alloy,Furnace, Cast, Farris, Bolt is the line up that can release the ball from smoke/vitriol and is reasonably fast. Two of the apprentices can scatter the ball at range, Farris can legendary. When receiving, Burnish can control vKat's range as well and is an amazing midfield piece so my lineup changes to Hearth, Alloy, Furnace, Cinder (to retrieve the ball after 1st goal), Burnish (Captain) , Cast.

Wow, thank you, i will try this next time :)

20 minutes ago, Morganrl said:

vkat into Farris only has a 60%chance to make his double push, and needs to do it twice to get her out of the charge path. 

Farris has a 73.5% chance to hit her double push to get him back btb on the counter attack. 

If she starts btb with him and in between any of his targets he won't be able to move her, KD her and charge someone else. 

Wow, nice trick, thank you :)

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Also, putting 2" reach on exposed Burnish can be really strong as he has a push on 1 and double push on 2 and so forces vKat to take a non-Mom KD on a charge or loose 2 INF (if he has them of course).

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3 minutes ago, Rugi said:

Also, putting 2" reach on exposed Burnish can be really strong as he has a push on 1 and double push on 2 and so forces vKat to take a non-Mom KD on a charge or loose 2 INF (if he has them of course).

Thank you. In the second match I picked all models with 2" reach to made Smoke difficult to took goals and went wherever she wanted to.

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Anyone that can apply lots of burning can be tough for us to deal with. This includes, especially, Smoke and Burnish. I used Burnish in to other smiths to really shut them down. Smoke can really struggle to get the ball back though, as mentioned. In my last match against her, I had the ball on Farris, who was in cover. Unfortunately my opponent forgot about this and stacked her up for an easy goal run. Sadly, Smoke's 4 tac, 3 because of cover, simply couldn't get past the 3 armor, and thus a lot was wasted there.

A Ballista line-up also gives us a lot of trouble. They can beat us out of momentum by easy ranged plays like Deadbolt and Blasted Earth. I really struggled in my matchup against an amazing engineers player. Unfortunately for me, my kickoff was not accurate and scattered off the pitch, which allowed him to give Colossus the ball in the corner. I made the mistake of moving up anyway, which made it extremely easy for him to just wail on me from range lol. I did eventually score, but the snap-back goals are easy for engineers.

I think the most important thing I learned at that tournament (Beer City WarmUp) was that if you cannot get the ball immediately, simply stay back by your goal and let your opponent come to you. Even if they are a beating team, hang back. We smiths have a lot of great tools against teams that want to group up, such as the obvious One at a Time, Lads! and burnish being able to throw out 2 rings of fire at a time if captain. We have amazing control pieces with Iron's double push and Hearth's mom-KD one.

So even if you want to score, just be patient. Learn to strike at exactly the right moment for the greatest effect. :) This, however, is one of the hardest things to learn. We can't really waste any activations, right? All of our players want to contribute usefully and have something they can do. All the other teams have options such as batteries and mascots that they can use to waste an activation or two until their key player (a la Shark or Hammer) is primed to go in without worry. Thankfully, though, we also have players that want to do one easy job pretty early and, in fact, the wasted activations are actually to our benefit.

For example, we typically want to use hearth to buff up other players with Instruction and Use This, as well as get in a position where 2-3" melee is useful to protect. We also want to use someone like Furnace for Tooled Up pretty early too, and to place his OaaTL in a good spot. 2" melee again is useful. Or we want to use ferrite for her legendary and debuffs to set up anoether player. So the longer the opponent takes to pull their trigger, the longer we have to prepare ourselves to fire the cannon. This timing, then, requires patience, practice, and foresight. If you adopt the visualizations of the essence of a Blacksmith, and then apply those to how you play them, I think you will be very successful as a player with them. Obviously it is easier said than done, but we can all do it with enough practice. :)

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20 minutes ago, CaptainFaux said:

 

Wow, nice write, thanks all of your advices, they would be very useful for me, next time i will try to do all of this things!

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On 3/14/2018 at 5:16 PM, CaptainFaux said:

Anyone that can apply lots of burning can be tough for us to deal with. This includes, especially, Smoke and Burnish. I used Burnish in to other smiths to really shut them down. Smoke can really struggle to get the ball back though, as mentioned. In my last match against her, I had the ball on Farris, who was in cover. Unfortunately my opponent forgot about this and stacked her up for an easy goal run. Sadly, Smoke's 4 tac, 3 because of cover, simply couldn't get past the 3 armor, and thus a lot was wasted there.

A Ballista line-up also gives us a lot of trouble. They can beat us out of momentum by easy ranged plays like Deadbolt and Blasted Earth. I really struggled in my matchup against an amazing engineers player. Unfortunately for me, my kickoff was not accurate and scattered off the pitch, which allowed him to give Colossus the ball in the corner. I made the mistake of moving up anyway, which made it extremely easy for him to just wail on me from range lol. I did eventually score, but the snap-back goals are easy for engineers.

I think the most important thing I learned at that tournament (Beer City WarmUp) was that if you cannot get the ball immediately, simply stay back by your goal and let your opponent come to you. Even if they are a beating team, hang back. We smiths have a lot of great tools against teams that want to group up, such as the obvious One at a Time, Lads! and burnish being able to throw out 2 rings of fire at a time if captain. We have amazing control pieces with Iron's double push and Hearth's mom-KD one.

So even if you want to score, just be patient. Learn to strike at exactly the right moment for the greatest effect. :) This, however, is one of the hardest things to learn. We can't really waste any activations, right? All of our players want to contribute usefully and have something they can do. All the other teams have options such as batteries and mascots that they can use to waste an activation or two until their key player (a la Shark or Hammer) is primed to go in without worry. Thankfully, though, we also have players that want to do one easy job pretty early and, in fact, the wasted activations are actually to our benefit.

For example, we typically want to use hearth to buff up other players with Instruction and Use This, as well as get in a position where 2-3" melee is useful to protect. We also want to use someone like Furnace for Tooled Up pretty early too, and to place his OaaTL in a good spot. 2" melee again is useful. Or we want to use ferrite for her legendary and debuffs to set up anoether player. So the longer the opponent takes to pull their trigger, the longer we have to prepare ourselves to fire the cannon. This timing, then, requires patience, practice, and foresight. If you adopt the visualizations of the essence of a Blacksmith, and then apply those to how you play them, I think you will be very successful as a player with them. Obviously it is easier said than done, but we can all do it with enough practice. :)

I think this is kind of the essence of playing Smith's there and also the reason why I struggle so much against Hunters. If you stay back, they just go "thanks, have soe snipe/pinned/Boombox etc."

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