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In the timing sequences for attacks and character plays, there is an explicate step to check for taken-out as a result of damage.  Models that suffer damage during an attack or character play do not suffer the taken-out condition until this step is reached.  What about models that take damage not during the resolution of a play or attack?  Examples include damage from Traits like Overheat and Cloak of Rats or plays that do delayed damage like Minefield or Alternator.  Do models that suffer damage from these effects that reduce them to 0 hit points suffer the taken out condition immediately or is it delayed until some later check?

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Are you referring to 6tus's thread?  Perhaps I misinterpreted his question but I read it as asking for clarification about simultaneous triggers.  The domain of this question is the timing of the taken-out check for damage outside the normal attack or character play sequences.  I didn't think it was similar enough to include in the same thread.  If the lawyers disagree I won't hold it against them if they lock this and answer both questions in the other thread.

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Fair enough. I was under the impression the issue in the other thread was one of "when is the check for Taking-Out made" - once all triggered effects have been resolved, or after each effect has been resolved individually...

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10 hours ago, MilitaryCoo said:

Sustained effects of character plays are resolved using the standard checks for taken out, i.e. if a model is reduced to zero health. 

When exactly does the check for taken-out happen if a model is damaged outside of the resolution of a character play or attack?

For example, if Mainspring is affected by both Second Wind and Deletion, at the end of it's activation if the Engineer's player chooses to resolve the damage from Deletion first and this reduces to Mainspring to 0 HP, is the check to take it out before Second Wind is resolved since Second Wind doesn't cause damage or after because they're simultaneous effects?

If Flask suffers damage from Ballista's Minefield that reduces it to 0 HP, is the check to it out before Flask finishes it's advance or as soon as the damage is triggered?  Does it matter whether it was a standard advance or one granted by Second Wind or a similar ability?

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10 hours ago, MechMage said:

For example, if Mainspring is affected by both Second Wind and Deletion, at the end of it's activation if the Engineer's player chooses to resolve the damage from Deletion first and this reduces to Mainspring to 0 HP, is the check to take it out before Second Wind is resolved since Second Wind doesn't cause damage or after because they're simultaneous effects?

Which part of the previous ruling seems to indicate this is not already handled by the standard "Any effects and abilities that trigger at the same timing step may be resolved in any order the Controlling Player chooses." rule that is found on page 15 of the rulebook?

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1 hour ago, Spinsane said:

Which part of the previous ruling seems to indicate this is not already handled by the standard "Any effects and abilities that trigger at the same timing step may be resolved in any order the Controlling Player chooses." rule that is found on page 15 of the rulebook?

During an attack, the selected playbook results may be resolved in whatever order the attacking player chooses, but no matter what results are chosen, the check for take-out doesn't happen until all of the effects are resolved.  There isn't an explicate check for take-out at the end of taking damage outside the resolution of an attack or play but from the previous ruling on simultaneous sources of damage outside of the resolution of a play a check obviously exists.  My confusion is if it happens at the end of all simultaneous damaging effects or instead at the end of all simultaneous effects, including those that don't cause damage, and if for the purposes of this check if damage taken during an advance is considered to be simultaneous with the advance.

Consider another scenario.

Compound Mainspring and Velocity are all within 3" of each other and each only has 1 HP remaining.  Compound ends his activation, suffering 2 damage from Alternator and triggering Noxious Death.  This causes Mainspring and Velocity to each suffer 3 damage.  If the Engineers player chooses to resolve the check for taken-out on Mainspring first, Overheat is triggered, causing another 3 damage to Velocity.  This obviously isn't simultaneous because it doesn't happen until Noxious Death is resolved.  If the check for taken-out happens first on Mainspring, does Velocity's check for taken-out happen after the resolution of Overheat or before it and then again after it from the damage caused by Overheat?  Effectively, does Reanimate save Velocity in the case of an explosive chain reaction?

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2 hours ago, MechMage said:

Consider another scenario.

Compound Mainspring and Velocity are all within 3" of each other and each only has 1 HP remaining...

Fair enough, I see the point now, and can agree I see no way to resolve this simply that doesn't seem to break one rule or ruling...

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Apologies for the delay on this, there was quite a bit of back and forth and there'll almost certainly be a tweak in the S4 rules to make this clearer:

 

On 3/14/2018 at 7:42 PM, MechMage said:

If Flask suffers damage from Ballista's Minefield that reduces it to 0 HP, is the check to it out before Flask finishes it's advance or as soon as the damage is triggered?  Does it matter whether it was a standard advance or one granted by Second Wind or a similar ability?

The damage and check for taken out are resolved immediately, in the same way that suffering fire/snare during an advance immediately reduces movement or a Parting Blow inflicting a KD immediately stops movement. There is no difference in resolution for a standard vs an additional advance.

On 3/15/2018 at 8:09 AM, MechMage said:

Compound Mainspring and Velocity are all within 3" of each other and each only has 1 HP remaining.  Compound ends his activation, suffering 2 damage from Alternator and triggering Noxious Death.  This causes Mainspring and Velocity to each suffer 3 damage.  If the Engineers player chooses to resolve the check for taken-out on Mainspring first, Overheat is triggered, causing another 3 damage to Velocity.  This obviously isn't simultaneous because it doesn't happen until Noxious Death is resolved.  If the check for taken-out happens first on Mainspring, does Velocity's check for taken-out happen after the resolution of Overheat or before it and then again after it from the damage caused by Overheat?  Effectively, does Reanimate save Velocity in the case of an explosive chain reaction?

The Compound-owning player would choose the order DMG was resolved against Velocity and Mainspring. As this DMG is simultaneous, neither model suffers taken out until after DMG is applied to both models. Velocity's Reanimate triggers when her HP reaches 0 before taken out is applied, so she will reanimate before TO is applied to Mainspring and it explodes.

The explosion will cause Velocity to be reduced to 0 HP again, so she will suffer the Taken Out condition per page 18.

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Just to expand on this:

In your last example, if Velocity were VetSiren instead (Escaping Fate instead of Reanimate), she would be reduced to 0 and then Escaping Fate would trigger so she could move away before the TO is applied to Mainspring and thus escape the damage from Mainspring's explosion?

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