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Von Ether

All praise the plastic!

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So my kid didn't fully zipper my Reaper bag so when I pulled it out of the car,  all of my Mason "fatties" fell out. Granite landed in the back seat, thank god, but Brick and Wrecker hit the parking lot. Wrecker popped apart, but plastic Brick bounced and didn't even have a scratch or a paint chip!

Whew! 

More plastic figs please!

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4 hours ago, Von Ether said:

...

More plastic figs please!

Nay I say! Some may call me old fashioned, but I believe in metal miniatures, and more importantly I believe in Guild Ball metal miniatures. 

Metal minis have an importance to them. If I've got 60 or so space knights with blaster shields running around casting spells, like some of them other games, each one isn't going to mater that much. Let them be plastic for all I care. 

But when you have only 6 players that you will be investing the next ~2 hours into, you've got to feel a characters heft when you pick it up and place it! The weight reminds you that every move means something. 

Now lookie here, i unnastand you where you are coming from. I'm from a long line of hard working, middle class, simple, straight shooting, dog fearing, tabletop miniature war gaming folk, and like all of you, I've been excited about the advances in modeling technology and fabrication. But just because we can, doesn't mean we should! Let's keep the metal in the minis, and save the plastic for the recycling. 

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1 hour ago, Scapegoat_Stephen said:

Plastic all they way! Price point and accessibility for new players alone make it superior.

I agree.

But then again I'm a lousy painter and in it for the game, not the painting so I can't really appreciate the higher model quality of metal even though I know it's a thing.

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1 hour ago, Scapegoat_Stephen said:

Price point and accessibility for new players alone make it superior.

Ratcatchers release would indicate however that the price point would be the same as the metal starters and at that point I personally don't see how in the world could pvc be considered superior at the same price point, but I must admit, I don't see how pvc could be considered superior at all when compared to metal. But I'd say I'm a hobbyist over a gamer though. So I appreciate the sharp and clear details of metal miniatures over muddied pvc details. :) It makes for a world of difference in the enjoyment of painting. 

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I think we all know I’m a hobbyist, not a gamer, but I’ve enjoyed prepping and painting the blacksmiths so far. Much more so than some of the metals, so I think it comes down to individual model and not the material for me. I don’t know what the details on Silence’s stomach were meant to be even after painting, and had to resculpt ghast’s belt to actually give it buckled not just pockmarked blobs ;)

I still consider the plastic boxes a reasonable deal (even at the new price, pushed up by economic factors like the UK’s weaker currency) - six models, a token set, a piece of terrain and a goal would cost me £70 ish in metal, and I’d still have to make the terrain (yawn) :D

The fact that they bounce well and don’t weigh as much is a handy bonus for gamers with children, or long journeys, or even a crowded event hall where people could bump the table (Brainpan weighs so much, he’s really not happy upright on his 30mm...)

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You have the s1 kickstarter models right? Our group had some issues with them as well when it comes down to casting quality but the newer ones after that have been superb casts to a point I feel they are probably the best metal line of models. 

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40 minutes ago, Furnace said:

You have the s1 kickstarter models right? Our group had some issues with them as well when it comes down to casting quality but the newer ones after that have been superb casts to a point I feel they are probably the best metal line of models. 

I have KS resin and metal, S2 resin, and very recent metals. Ghast and Silence were replacements I bought mid last year. I also have plenty of other more recent metals, and they still range from better than the plastics to worse. That’s not to say they’re not lovely models and well cast for the most part, but they still vary.

Like I said, it’s not about the material. It’s about the sculpt and the cast, and the plastic is still inside the variability range of metals in my experience.

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9 hours ago, Furnace said:

Ratcatchers release would indicate however that the price point would be the same as the metal starters and at that point I personally don't see how in the world could pvc be considered superior at the same price point, but I must admit, I don't see how pvc could be considered superior at all when compared to metal. But I'd say I'm a hobbyist over a gamer though. So I appreciate the sharp and clear details of metal miniatures over muddied pvc details. :) It makes for a world of difference in the enjoyment of painting. 

Without wanting to rehash an old discussion point you get 6 models, a goal, a thematic ball, health dials and all the tokens you need so cheaper and more accessible still sounds right to me :)

Also I find the plastics aren't that bad when you're going to be 2+ feet away from them anyway.

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1 hour ago, SonofMars said:

Try putting together and painting Meathook, it might cure you of a love for metal.

I have. :)

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Question.  We know that you can get bad models and bad sculpts in both plastic and metal.  So is the issue a matter of percentage?  Meaning the percent chance of getting a bad model in plastic is higher then in metal.  Is it a matter of personal preference? In which case trying to argue one way or the other is kind of like arguing politics with extremists.  Or is it something I am just not grasping?

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12 minutes ago, SonofMars said:

Question.  We know that you can get bad models and bad sculpts in both plastic and metal.  So is the issue a matter of percentage?  Meaning the percent chance of getting a bad model in plastic is higher then in metal.  Is it a matter of personal preference? In which case trying to argue one way or the other is kind of like arguing politics with extremists.  Or is it something I am just not grasping?

For me it's about the clean up. Metal is far easier to clean and assemble for me then the type of plastic SF is using. So while I'm not anti plastic completely, I'm disliking the PVC plastic a lot.

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19 minutes ago, SonofMars said:

Question.  We know that you can get bad models and bad sculpts in both plastic and metal.  So is the issue a matter of percentage?  Meaning the percent chance of getting a bad model in plastic is higher then in metal.  Is it a matter of personal preference? In which case trying to argue one way or the other is kind of like arguing politics with extremists.  Or is it something I am just not grasping?

Not so much a percentage I'd say. Simply that the other material has better detail. 

I'll try to elaborate this the way I see it, let's take pvc (not plastic as GW for example makes tremendously good work when it comes to details in plastic). The details simply aren't very good. There are spots when you are sort of just painting a patch of mush that isn't really anything sharp. Look at the hands, armor, straps etc on a few of the Blacksmith1 models. Or Brewers from the kick off. The hands melt into the weapons. There's blocks of nothing that just connects the models to their, say weaponry. There aren't very good nor clear crevasses. You can do pretty good pvc work and it's an okay material for board games, when you have a lot of them and they're sort of expandable and shift on and off the board. Zombicide for example has pretty nice miniatures. Blacksmiths2 has a few pretty nice models when it comes to details, parts of them are sharp and clear because they're bigger models. Burnish looks pretty good. Farris (the horsey one) looks pretty good too. But once they turn smaller the details start vanishing. They lack depth and surface differences. For example buckles and belts turn into a pretty flat surface.  

Take metal, and you're clear on what you're painting, because the details have more depth. You can paint a crisscross of buckles and belts and they're clearer. The depth changes, the details pop out way clearer and there's no mushiness. I think this is pretty exceptionally well done in the s2 and forward Guild Ball line. The first ks casts had some mushy details and the casts weren't entirely flawless. 

So the way I see it, it's not much of a question of which shows better detail. Nor percentage. In my eyes it's painfully clear one of the materials is better for a miniature game. The other is just fine for a board game if you don't much care how they look or are they sharp and perfect. 

But like I said, I view this mainly from a hobbyists point of view. 

Did I answer your question or did I just ramble?

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That answers it for the most part.  I was just curious because I have seen plenty of the metal models that had terrible detail and when compounded with the ridiculous difficulty in putting them together, and the fragility of both the model and the paint job on the model ( even with primer metal models seem to chip constently) I have been pleased with the plastics.  I should note I am gamer, by no means a hobbyist.

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6 minutes ago, SonofMars said:

That answers it for the most part.  I was just curious because I have seen plenty of the metal models that had terrible detail and when compounded with the ridiculous difficulty in putting them together, and the fragility of both the model and the paint job on the model ( even with primer metal models seem to chip constently) I have been pleased with the plastics.  I should note I am gamer, by no means a hobbyist.

Oh surely. I've also seen pretty bad metal miniatures but I still highly prefer it. As to assembling.. When you asked about Meathook, I've assembled Dark Age miniatures, Outcasts.. You haven't felt agony and frustration until you've assembled those minis. :D I'm not sure if you're familiar with Malifaux and their plastic line? Well, it's pretty notorious about having super small and annoying parts and a painful assembly process. Done a lot of that too. But Dark Age, whoosah, it's basically the same but in metal. 

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The big issues my hobbyist friends have with the plastic models is the lack of conversion possiblities. We examined one blacksmith model in particular, Burnish i believe from the 2nd box, that these models are near impossible to convert. The individual pieces (weaponry, armor) are molded directly to the model makes it very difficult to separate and convert them. Having Burnish's gun attached to the shield, which in turn is part of the plastic from his leg means you can't change that and personalize it, which was (and is) much more free with multi-part metal models.

On my own merits, The models drew me into the game and having now been exposed to Infinity I thoroughly love the metal models so much more. Details pop much better and model heft is quite nice.

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I have no issue either way with people liking the plastics or not, or thinking they offer less/more value, and so on. It comes from what exactly we do with our models, and what we’re used to working with. Personally, as long as I’m enjoying the specific model, I’m fine with it. Don’t really care what it’s made of (within reason, but I’ve painted sugarpaste so it’s a broad category ;) ), as long as it’s a fun paintjob.

However, I keep seeing the same people posting the same things about metals and plastics in any thread that might be vaguely relevant, and no one changing their opinion, and it’s getting a little tiresome. I’ve seen it before (basically whenever any company changes their casting material), and it never really achieves anything except making everyone grumpier.

This isn’t a warning, but a hope that we can get back to enjoying the hobby and the game. Laugh about the positives and negatives of each material and each model (they all have some of each). Like the joys of bouncing brick from the OP (and the flinch for wrecker going bang) :D

After all, it’s a hobby that we do because we enjoy it, right? :D

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How do you deal with the fact that like, some stuff in your collection will be metals and some will be plastics and there'll be an inconsistency in detail then, Mako?

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@Lena I pick out and hide details with paint anyway, which means they don’t look much different after I’ve finished. So it doesn’t bother me :D

I’m more annoyed by the scale difference between my resin oGraves and metal Steamcon Skulk!

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