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Snow

How does the farmers errata affect union?

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Specifically because I mainly play vet rage. I've been practising with a Blackheart footballing team, so I can try and out-football farmers. Now they've been nerfed, is it competitive to outkill them with Vet rage in tournament play? This would allow me to bring a selection of ten melee specialists. I don't get much chance to put this into practise outside of tournaments, so I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts 

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It will take some experimenting to be sure since Thresher's playbook responds to positive spikes so well.  It isn't immediately obvious exactly how much he'll be affected by his playbook change.  Based on the analytics I've seen, Thresher will still usually one round vRage with Tooled Up but is considerably less likely to take him out from full in a single activation.  That puts him in the same category as Hammer.  I suspect it may be possible for a carefully played vRage to outfight Thresher now but it will take some playtesting to be sure.  If that is the case, I believe monocaptain vRage Union will once again be viable.

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5 hours ago, MechMage said:

It will take some experimenting to be sure since Thresher's playbook responds to positive spikes so well.  It isn't immediately obvious exactly how much he'll be affected by his playbook change.  Based on the analytics I've seen, Thresher will still usually one round vRage with Tooled Up but is considerably less likely to take him out from full in a single activation.  That puts him in the same category as Hammer.  I suspect it may be possible for a carefully played vRage to outfight Thresher now but it will take some playtesting to be sure.  If that is the case, I believe monocaptain vRage Union will once again be viable.

 

Interesting. My hunch was that it would still be a tough matchup, as the errata seemed pretty measured. I may try it, as I've still only played Rage in the one tournament I've been to since starting union. Haven't played against farmers competitively yet. Be interested to know how anyone else gets on

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The main advantage we have gained is that Harvest Markers have to be positioned a lot more aggressively to set up for Don't Fear. That means they are more vulnerable to a well timed spring from Gutter, Minx or Decimate to clear them out. If he doesn't have a Harvest Marker, Thresher still has a good threat range but won't one round Rage unless he wins initiative (which he shouldn't, if he's hitting Rage and giving you two extra momentum while only generating ~4 for himself).

I expect the Farmers' Union drop to primarily be Grange now. If that ends up being the case, then there are two options - stick with a footballing captain and score goals against their poor ball killing / limited threat ranges, or swap that slot for Avarisse and Greede and try to overpower them with sheer raw damage instead. Either probably works, but needs some testing.

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On 07/03/2018 at 3:24 PM, Gauntlet said:

... or swap that slot for Avarisse and Greede and try to overpower them with sheer raw damage instead.

Which slot? What would your lineup be? 

My usual rage team is Strongbox, Gutter, Decimate, Benediction, Mist. I've never used A&G

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1 minute ago, Snow said:

Which slot? What would your lineup be? 

My usual rage team is Strongbox, Gutter, Decimate, Benediction, Mist. I've never used A&G

Usually I'd go for this lineup:

VRage

Strongbox (they're a slow grindy brawling team, Box is great here)

Gutter (the team has low defensive stats and groups up to get Scything Blow-ed well)

A&G (see above, wait for the brawl to start and then beat whoever you can reach to death)

Benediction (he is difficult for farmers to kill, and his pushes are great for getting the scrum into your favour. He's also influence efficient)

Hemlocke (Blind is great on Farmers who are often quite telegraphed in their plays. Noxious Blast is a useful way of forcing the Farmers to engage on you, or mitigating their healing, and you can occasionally make use of Smelling Salts to stand everyone up after Grange KDs you all).

 

I try not to take more than two of Gutter / Decimate / A&G / Mist because they are all very influence hungry and often want to be fully stacked, and you only have 12 to go around. Hemlocke / Minx / Benediction are a lot more influence efficient and can be given 0-2 influence and still be relevant.

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Thanks @Gauntlet was seriously considering that for my next tournament - although this weekend's tournament has made me think I should probably try Blackheart!

I did okay. It was my third ever tourney and my second with union. Won three, lost two against very good players. Ended up thirteenth in a 32 man and just scraped highest placed union of four (two other union went 3-2).

One of my losses was against Grange. I lost 4-12, one goal versus six takeouts. Yes, he was a more experienced player, but that team was SO good in the scrum it just feels better to avoid it. 

I can't help feeling that spreading out with Blackheart would be a lot stronger, in fact the errata may well have made that an even better choice, as it was so focused on limiting their positioning. If you're trying to out-scrum them, I don't think they're feeling the effect of the errata as much, as they can still stay bunched and do what they do. 

I'm not saying that a better rage player couldn't beat them, but it feels like it might be hard mode! Will have to try Blackheart next time and see how that goes! 

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Having played a couple games with the lineup above, there's a major issue with it that should be taken into account - you have no good kicking off models. If you're kicking, you probably want Mist or Decimate. I'd lean towards Decimate since farmers don't really have any control to prevent you from using her well. 

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