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AaronHypetrainWilson

Farmer Errata has landed

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I play Farmers, I'm happy to see the changes. 

 

Honestly Tater got off really lightly.  I expected more tweaks to him. 

 

Thresher,  . . . well he needed the changes to his Traits and Plays.  I wasn't expecting the Playbook rewrite but at an initial viewing he's still a good captain, just not an extremely good captain anymore.

 

Millstone, perhaps one step too far.  I'm not sure.  She needed changing as much as Thresher did but I'll have to try her on the table before I make my mind up.

 

 

Biggest Surprise - the slap to Corsair the Errata did on the way out the door :D

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Where is fallow's nerf ? ^^'

 

Intelligent nerf otherwise, I like it (especially millstone's).

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The same possible synergies, but now it requires effort to make them run smoothly. Seems reasonable to me. Also Millstone is less tanky, Thresher lost his auto-KD etc. Still a very good team, but not the point&click thing any more.

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My only concern is Jack became even more of an auto include as the only model besides millstone who can reliably drop harvest markers where you will need them.  There were definitely some games I liked dropping him from thresher's team and with increased consumption and no better production, I no longer feel that's an option

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I think its going to take a little play time to see how this changes them. They can still do a lot of what they did, but its more effort to achieve it.

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Sad to see they didn't fix the obviously OP fallow interactions.

Everything was pretty on point. They definitely didn't overdo it though. 

I'm excited to finally be able to play with the models I've had for awhile now. Haha 

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Pretty well done. The elongation of Threshers Playbook was a simple, but clever move.

The KD dodge result is a little workaround I like. He pretty much always gets the momentous doge if he wants, combined with a KD, but at least it's not like he's going to kill half your team after he started turn 2 while the Farmer player attestates that that is how he should work and I should just work around. ;) 

I haven't had any experience with Fallow, as some have said she still seems to be a powerhouse, but honestly every guild has some sort of powerhouse. Cosset, Boiler, Vitriol, Bolt. Those are models you cna't activate and go. It seems like Fallow is not that hard to take down and with the reduced range for Fork Off and generally reduced amount of Influence the Farmers now have access too, due to the fact that the core abilities now - finally, thank the Rules Team - cost something. It seems to me that Fallow will be more of a Grange character as well now, but I could be wrong. Overall I like the changes, especially the cheeky Corsair ones, cause that was dumb for reason. Now the only thing I have on my mind is Blackhearts monentous 1 damage double dodge, and I might play him again. :D 

But seriously, love it. Well done, guys.

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2 hours ago, Steveedoug said:

Does ploughman not become more of an include? Being able to produce multiple rough grounds that produce an extra harvest marker when planted in

Not for me.  I've tried him a good number of times since I thought there was some game to be had.  My issues with him are that he only donates 1 inf to the team if he does his rough ground and if he doesn't, he shouldn't be on the pitch.  But to get extra harvest markers he has to activate before my other planters.  This is a huge problem for grange or harrow for me but a little less so for millstone or Jack.  But if I already have millstone and jack, I'm not sure I need the extra marker as much as i want harrow's healing aura and if I have all 3 of those I surely don't need a 4th planter.  

 

Even a pitch where I had 2 huge rough ground patches in my way he really didn't feel worth the slot I gave him.  Ultimately if I can afford to give him influence he might can give me back one next turn but he's messing with my order of activations to do so.  Definitely try him out but for me he feels pretty weak even in situations where he ought to shine.

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So now I've had a while to think it over, I've been replaying important parts of the last few games and apart from one time where I used a HM to get Don't Fear on the most off the opposition... I don't think any of the changes would have made much actual difference to my games.

Would have made things harder to achieve, and maybe an influence or two down, but I can still play them the way I want. Changes are good imo. 

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I like most of the changes but think they went one step too far on all three. The interaction with anything/anyone is always 4"+. Interaction with the HM shouldn't be any different. Millstone's ability being 4" is fine and now she needs to get closer to tthe action which makes her easier to kill. She should've kept the extra armor. Especially being the only person with any.

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Meh its an overnerf. Taking away millstones influence is pretty significant and reworking Threshers playbook is extremely significant as well. Tater's changes are fine but overall it very much feels like an overcorrection due to the pitchforking of this community. If Steamforged nerfed them and they still possibly won a major event the community would be in an uproar, even if they were dead in the middle of the pack in terms of power level. The way things are now they wont win a major tournament because they're probably in the weakest tier of guilds and thats what the community wants. Not only that but psychologically most players aren't going to be super eager to try out something thats just been nerfed. There wont be a lot of excitement around Farmers now. yay!

 

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The time will say if the Nerf it's ok or it's overnerf, but you can try to play grange first than say that the guild is the worst....

Millestone 4 influence with the harvest marker it's op nobody player in others guilds give that influence, I remeber when silence have 3...

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No one said that the guild is the worst. I'd argue its about butchers power level now, which most people would say is in the lower half of the game. Which is what steamforged wanted and its what the community wanted. Also I've played Grange enough to know what he plays like and his team doesn't really play any differently now. It just has less resources and the death scrum he wants to set up is much tighter on its positioning. Stop making assumptions about people you don't know. 

Also Milestone was never 4 influence with a Harvest Marker. She used to be 3 and provided a marker, now she is 2 and provides a marker. If you are trying to make a point it helps to actually be factual and not just make things up. Even if you WERE correct it would still be a flawed idea because Harvest Markers are different than influence and should not be treated as exactly the same despite the fact that a lot of people here want to pretend it is. 

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So you claiming we all (community and designers, all but you) just wanted to drop them to the lowest spot is not making assumptions...

They were the dream team. Thresher been the most played captain in Longshanks and also been the most succesfull one is indeed really significant, don't you think so?

Great changes. I like them all.

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13 minutes ago, Clearly not welcomed here said:

Stop making assumptions about people you don't know. 

You say in the other post that comunity and steamforge want this nerfs and assume that people don't try to win thresher...

In the other hand Theron in the past recieve a Nerf and then in a free months get a Buff, only the time can say if it's justified or not. Only the feedback we send to steamforge may do changes to balance the guilds

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Time will tell if these changes pan out and Thresher still sees regular play.

I've got flashbacks from earlier this season with Alchemists when Midas turned up all over and Smoke was barely ever dropped, now Midas is relegated to Smoke's backup dancer.

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30 minutes ago, Clearly not welcomed here said:

Also Milestone was never 4 influence with a Harvest Marker. She used to be 3 and provided a marker, now she is 2 and provides a marker. If you are trying to make a point it helps to actually be factual and not just make things up. Even if you WERE correct it would still be a flawed idea because Harvest Markers are different than influence and should not be treated as exactly the same despite the fact that a lot of people here want to pretend it is. 

This is correct but the only way to remove harvest marker was with thresher and you only need one maybe two to the countercharge and the counterattack that it's the same that you use to the Don't fear the...  But I say if the changes are good or not only the time can say us. 

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4 minutes ago, Clement said:

Time will tell if these changes pan out and Thresher still sees regular play.

I've got flashbacks from earlier this season with Alchemists when Midas turned up all over and Smoke was barely ever dropped, now Midas is relegated to Smoke's backup dancer.

Smoke for me need a review because it's too easy to put conditions in whole team and this it's much preasure but have teams that can hurt her a lot.

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So I've had a day to sit down and take a look what has really changed and my gut reaction is - it's very well done and it's a lot of subtle changes (the Thresher playbook being the most direct one) to the team that come together as a very functional change to a team to reduce the power level of The Farmers while by large mechanically you're still looking to do the same things. 

A lot of the ranges have been reduced (Don't fear the... Fork' Off! Take One for the Team) have all been reduced. This is actually very important, going from 4" to 2" and 6" to 4" will force The Farmer players to have a LOT better positioning. It also means playing against the team you can force Thresher into a position where he either commits and has no Harvest Marker for Don't Fear the... or doesn't at all. That's not considering he already needs one if he wants his 3" melee. 

The new consumption of Harvest Markers (Fork' off, Don't fear the...) paired with Millstone's drop of influence means that resource management is now a legitimate question the Farmer has to keep in mind and has to strike a balance off removing Harvest Markers at the correct time or keeping them down to bank for a bigger turn next turn. It's no a longer a case of being able to keep 2 down and being a 15 influence team, there is now a element of decision.

Lastly the Thresher playbook change is the most direct change to the team, making it so Thresher will wrap less as well shifting the splitting the 2KD result. I honestly think this is a fair change especially when considering some of the time Thresher doesn't need to worry about a player counter-attacking due to 2" and if it is a worry he can scoop up a Harvest marker to reap the rewards. Having the 2KD result just means you'd always take it on the first attack, now again you decide between taking the KD or taking the damage. 

All in all I think SFG have done a excellent job with this errata considering some of the sweeping changes that could of happened (Removing 3" of Thresher completely, making Take one for the Team a Heroic Play, remove Scything blow from Tater etc etc. Instead what they have done is inserted the element of decision into the team that previously had to make none to do what they did. They're mechanically the same guild but now will require better positioning, placing of Harvest Markers and crucially key decision making. The guild still has  the potential to be a total powerhouse but in order to do so a player has to be making the correct decisions, have proper model placement and know when to use his active rules. If all guilds were like that, the game would be golden. 

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Having only been a "victim" of Thresher once (was a good game and I did want to see it in action) just this weekend. I observed a few things I'm happy SFG sorted and only sorted (spoiler I don't think they over nerfed)

Harvest markers are an interesting idea but was far too safe for their benefits. All you had to do was say "look a harvest marker I can now do X" and X was usually great (Counter charge, damage etc) and the marker just stayed there (for the most part) so you could get the benefit AND the INF next turn if you wanted. And with the abilities typically being 6" a whilly nillie placed marker could just happen to be in range if a marker got taken out or used.

Millstone although she did "nothing" all game, just being mid board stopped me setting up key models (thresher) and ultimately she was fine. Sure she can only get 1 condition but two attempts at knockdown is 2 INF worth of no damage (typically) and perhaps enough time for someone like Thresher to prevent you even getting the second oppertunity of the second KD. Sure go for her but now you are spending INF on her and not the "more important" key models.

I didn't really look at thresher's playbook so I'll take them on their word it needed a tweak.

Just tightening up what makes farmers farmers I think was what they needed. Harvest markers are a challengable resource (easier to run over and spendable now) than a guaranteed boon and people are easier to reach out and touch (Tater won't be back-lining too hard only to fly out of nowhere and mess up game plans for example)

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I'm a bit disappointed to be honest. As a Brewers Main I was waiting for all the cries that Tresher Farmers are now unplayable and bottomtier so I could have a good laugh. Most of the people are like 'aaaah, fair enough'. Apart from Clearly not welcomed here who I'm going to assume is just trolling most of the people agree the nerf is maybe a bit harsh but mostly fair. The Tresher change which is the biggest is in my opinion is really well done. KD 2dmg on the 4th column was SIC! on a melee range 3" TAC7 model and had to go. Right now his playbook seems just right. He was better at KDs than Tapper which is wild.

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For my money (and as a Farmers player, though primarily a Grange player), I think this is a totally fair errata IF Millstone was still 3 INF.  I think making it so you're going to be spending most of the Harvest Markers you generate AND taking away an influence from the team might be a hair too far, but in the interest of keeping people happy, I'm more than willing to lose an influence off of Millstone.

I do wish there had been some kind of buff to Ploughman, Windle, or Bushel...even taking Millstone's INF and giving it to Ploughman would have made for an interesting conversation.  If he's 3/3, that might actually bring him into consideration for people a little more.

Still, overall, pretty well done, SFG!

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