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glassquid

Without a chance against masons?

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Hey y'all,

 

I had my first game yesterday since 2016. I decided to play fillet, shank, minx, boiler, meethook and princess. (never played fillet before and minx just got her colour on).

my opponent had the following team: hammer, brick, tower, vetharmony, mallet and the monkey.

Literally the only two things, that worked were scoring with shank and putting 2 pain circles out. Other then that i got constantly kd'ed on counterattacks. I was unable to hurt him or break free after engaged with my opponent. He denied me all the momentum and butchered me.

 

So, i could see the lack of range 2 models was a pain for me. Same goes for reliable dodges. I felt completely helpless and unable to do anything, as i wasted up to 7inf per turn as my team got kd on the counter and/or killed. So i surrendered after a helpless 4/9... Because i had no fun at all.

are there good strategies how to play a matchup like this?

 

Thanks in advance ;)

 

Thx god we did an instant rematch, me taking alchemists and it became a good game. Otherwise i might have deserted gb for another year again :P

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Yeah Mootaz is correct here, as a Butcher you're only really looking to avoid reliable << or >> on counter attacks with your 1" melee models. Taking a momentous result on your first hit will totally negate a KD result as you can just clear the condition. 

As a Butcher player double counter charge is a bit of a nightmare to try and play around but trying to lure Brick out of position can work well, Butchers have the ability to totally kill Brick and once he's out of the game he's gone for a while. Without being to look at your positioning and decisions during the game it's hard to just give advice to make your games easier. 

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The problem with standing up is, i was still kd from last round, stood up with mp, moved up and got kd'ed again... In most cases. It was a spiral. Yeah, i generated 1mp for my one attack, but that was used to stand one other mini up. :(

I can write a detailed report later. But brick, hammer, monkey and def. Ground from tower were horrible.

thx for the replys

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Keep Fillet away from Hammer and Tower. They just push her out of range on a counter and she loses all her inf. She's fast enough to go and pick on other players. Try to score goals as that line up simply won't do enough damage to Masons. Honestly, though, your Butchers line up is really going to struggle against that Masons team. If you are open to changing your line up, I'd suggest dropping Shank and Minx for Boar and VOx. They will allow you to attack Hammer with impunity while Fillet does whatever she wants. A Brisket for Boiler would give you much greater goal threat too. That Masons team is definitely beatable, but it will be an uphill battle with your team.

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If you are in the situation where several of your team are Knocked down and unengaged, you need to be quite careful in  how you move. Ideally you try and get a model with good momentum generating options attacking a model that can't easily knock them down. so you can start using Come on Mate to get other players up, allowing them to take a breather if they get knocked down in the counter attack.

It may well be that you need to use models that don't have much influence on them to engage your targets to crowd them out and help you gang up. Also, things like using Shanks Where did you go to engage, rather than your advance means that if the counter attack knocks you down, you can still stand up.

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Thats good advice. Thank you.

Usually my players were engaged by 2'' models and kd. So i screwed up 1.turn and suffered the rest of the game.

so my line up will be a ball heavier list next time facing the masons. Tenderizer, brisket, vet-ox, fillet, shank and meethook? (i dont like boars mini) thinking of decimate as well as an option?

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1 minute ago, glassquid said:

Thats good advice. Thank you.

Usually my players were engaged by 2'' models and kd. So i screwed up 1.turn and suffered the rest of the game.

so my line up will be a ball heavier list next time facing the masons. Tenderizer, brisket, vet-ox, fillet, shank and meethook? (i dont like boars mini) thinking of decimate as well as an option?

Brick and Mallet are the only 2" models in that Masons team, and both of them are TAC5 and don't knock down till the third column, so neither of them should be able to reliably get counterattack KDs against your team most of the time.

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Maybe i got really unlucky? I never track my opponents dice that much... But almost every counterattack kd'ed me. I think every...

Often hammer did the knocking and then disengaged.

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4 minutes ago, glassquid said:

Maybe i got really unlucky? I never track my opponents dice that much... But almost every counterattack kd'ed me. I think every...

Often hammer did the knocking and then disengaged.

Hammer KDs well, and has a 2" push on his first column. He's usually only someone you want to be hitting if you have 2" reach, or can reasonably knock him down yourself on your first attack.

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On 2/23/2018 at 7:15 AM, glassquid said:

Thats good advice. Thank you.

Usually my players were engaged by 2'' models and kd. So i screwed up 1.turn and suffered the rest of the game.

so my line up will be a ball heavier list next time facing the masons. Tenderizer, brisket, vet-ox, fillet, shank and meethook? (i dont like boars mini) thinking of decimate as well as an option?

You don't necessarily go for goals over kills, careful use of defense debuffs at range can be a good way to avoid getting tied up and still ensuring murder, my usual lineup into masons is Ox, Boiler, Obrisket, Shank, Princess and Meathook.

gives good defense reduction, armor pen and plenty of fast players to score if you get the chance.

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On 2/23/2018 at 10:18 AM, glassquid said:

The problem with standing up is, i was still kd from last round, stood up with mp, moved up and got kd'ed again... In most cases. It was a spiral. Yeah, i generated 1mp for my one attack, but that was used to stand one other mini up. :(

I can write a detailed report later. But brick, hammer, monkey and def. Ground from tower were horrible.

thx for the replys

I'm a little confused by this. The rules state a model may only declare a counter attack once per turn against each enemy model. Once you've stood up again you should be free to continue hitting your target without another KD coming your way.

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19 hours ago, Jam Sandwich said:

I'm a little confused by this. The rules state a model may only declare a counter attack once per turn against each enemy model. Once you've stood up again you should be free to continue hitting your target without another KD coming your way.

The original poster had no way to stand up after the counter attack because he had already cleared conditions (taken a breather) once on his model that turn and advanced.

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I've found Concussion provides good mileage against Hammer. He's usually looking to rob 2 or 3 INF off a team mate, and only has 5 on himself. If he's yet to activate, look who's around him and start to concuss their INF off them. Tower is an especially good target as he's usually providing tooled up as well. If Hammer's deep and only has Tower in support, with 2 or 3 INF on him for support, with one crowd out Boar can quite reasonably strip all 3 off him if you're happy to sacrifice momentum and damage (by reasonable I mean a >50% chance of hitting a concussion or dmg/concussion result). Rage is less good at getting it off tower, but not bad for taking one or two off hammer himself. A Hammer without tooled up or iron fist is a lot less scary.

Cheerio,

Ben

 

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1 hour ago, Adran said:

The original poster had no way to stand up after the counter attack because he had already cleared conditions (taken a breather) once on his model that turn and advanced.

Yep missed the last round bit. So yeah, you need to handle multiple KDs and be prepared to use Come On Mate I guess.

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The mason lineup above has only one model with a reliable KD result on a counter attack vs your 4/1 and 5/0 models... Your opponent must have red hot dice to keep your team on the floor.

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Many times it's also about picking your targets wisely, and not just jumping in to the closest model in the hopes of killing them. Butchers are all about damage, but they have to be smart about it as well. 

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