Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
guild baller

Ballista vs Pin Vice

Recommended Posts

Hello All,

I'm relatively new to Cogs (been playing them for ~2 months) with mainly PV as my captain. I'm trying out Ballista because from what I hear, he tends to be the better captain but I just don't see it. He is slightly harder to kill, gains MP better with his Momentous Inspiration, and can tackle on 1 (instead of PV tackle on 2, both should be successful regardless of target) but that's it. I don't ever find myself using Minefield or Second Wind. PV is faster, still pretty hard to kill, has close control, and believe it or not can hit harder than Ballista*. My usual line up is Mother, Colossus, Ratchet, Hoist, and Velocity. My usual strategy is 2 goals and 2 take outs but sometimes 3 goals. Is there something I'm missing with him? I have him in the center of the pitch to beat on people and tackle and score if necessary but PV is better at beating on people and is way more dodgy if she wants to go for goal. Any input would help.

 

*See the charts below. It shows the total damage with Deletion's free Bonus Time taken in her 1st swing (2nd Inf used). As you can see she does more damage output around the 4th INF used and is better against models with higher defense which I feel is most often the case. This also doesn't include Overclocked which Ballista would not be able to use and would by far make Pin Vice the better hitter.

image.png.5e3feea1d14c6507e757ed9b6be914d4.png

image.png.264b3c16a698d1f92417aafc58111a76.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ballista is used in many ways. The most common is control and area denial. Whether kicking or receiving, dead bolt shuts down the opponent turn one if it hits. Minefield and Second wind add onto this concept. Momentum is key to heal chip damage and remove conditions, but you need the ball or someone to hit to do this. Ballista makes the engagement impossible or costly beyond worth for the opponent in well planned circumstances.
I will say, after the OPD change I have been playing Pin Vice a lot and have great fun with her, but I almost always pick ballista if I'm kicking to prevent the turn one goal. I do have great fun receiving with pin vice and either scoring with mother or killing their pressure model with tooled overclocked deletion.

In general baliista wants ratchet hoist velocity, with compound for complete area denial or your pick of colossus for greater pressure on a key model/bully in an area or salvo for team 3-0 dream. Some people have luck with locus, but I can't see the benefits, and I've been walking away from union since the minor guilds release. I have had some scenarios where I don't take either velocity or hoist, but those a specific games where I was testing a strategy against a lineup.

Side note though, with Pinvice she can go anywhere from 6-0 to 3-0, the other scorelines in the middle easily as approachable. Ballista meanwhile, like you said, just doesn't do as much damage, so wants to go for anything other than 6-0, most often 2-2, but can be 1-4, 3-0 if things go that way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Momentous Inspiration and Dead Bolt are in many cases more important to have than Pin Vice Tech.  Everything else Ballista brings is gravy.  It's most important when kicking since it allows Ratchet to Overclock your kicker to drastically increase the odds of a turn 1 goal.  Pin Vice is also super vulnerable to counter attacks thanks to her 1" melee and lack of access to a buyable dodge.  She also struggles to knock down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, MechMage said:

Momentous Inspiration and Dead Bolt are in many cases more important to have than Pin Vice Tech.  Everything else Ballista brings is gravy.  It's most important when kicking since it allows Ratchet to Overclock your kicker to drastically increase the odds of a turn 1 goal.  Pin Vice is also super vulnerable to counter attacks thanks to her 1" melee and lack of access to a buyable dodge.  She also struggles to knock down.

Momentous Inspiration is pretty good when kicking off. Do you ever use Minefield or Second Wind though? I like your idea of kicking off, gaining MP through Mom. Insp. to use Overclock on a possible turn 1 goal. I think PV's tech is more threatening from an opponent's standpoint.

I think Ballista is just as vulnerable to counter attacks because he has a 1" melee and cannot buy a dodge. Ballista's KD is easier to hit but if PV charges into someone she shouldn't have a problem getting the KD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, guild baller said:

Momentous Inspiration is pretty good when kicking off. Do you ever use Minefield or Second Wind though? I like your idea of kicking off, gaining MP through Mom. Insp. to use Overclock on a possible turn 1 goal. I think PV's tech is more threatening from an opponent's standpoint.

I think Ballista is just as vulnerable to counter attacks because he has a 1" melee and cannot buy a dodge. Ballista's KD is easier to hit but if PV charges into someone she shouldn't have a problem getting the KD.

5 net hits is an awful lot; even with 12 dice it isn't surprising to miss it.  Ballista can do a lot to mitigate counter attacks by spending influence on plays either before or after attacking.  No one can counter after being knocked down by dead bolt and 3 damage, KD and 1 momentum isn't the worst out come of two attacks so you aren't losing much efficiency that way.  Even if Ballista is pushed away after his first attack, his character plays allow him to reclaim some value from that influence.

I do use Second Wind, particularly when playing the denial game since it allows Ballista to back off after Dead Bolting and it can also be used as a Knee Slider that doesn't cost momentum.  Minefield is much more situational but if it triggers twice it's influence well spent IMO.  It's not something I plan to use so much as occasionally see the opportunity for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tooled up minefield does make people think twice before entering... It is situational but the threat of 5 damage just to engage him does make people think twice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×