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      Training Ground   02/14/2018

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Quwaz

Ongoing dervish debate

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My dad just got the Mortician guild and whole learning about tactics and strategy in playing the guild o keep seeing something that makes no sence. So I have seen MANY people talk about using football dervish for an 8" Dodge and this has been bugging the hell out of me. I've seen it being used on videos of matches and on the forums here.

The card very clearly says "the friendly model may immediately spend 1MP to make a pass that targets this player INSTEAD of making a Teamwork action.

So can someone please explain how you can pass and make a 4" Dodge (which would be a teamwork reaction) and also dervish, and then make a second (legitimate) 4" Dodge? Was there a rule change? What am I missing here?

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It is strange, but the way it is meant is, that the player that makes the dervish pass spents the momentum for the dervish pass instead of making a teamwork action themselves. So it is like this

You pass the ball and dodge and spent 1 MP to make the dervish pass. The reason for this is because the dervish pass is made by the receiving model, not Bonesaw. This allows him to utilize the dodge and get the ball back at the same time.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, vital piece of info: It says "instead of a teamwork action", which is the reason Bonesaw can make the dodge, becaue he isn't doing the dervish pass, but rather the other model.

I try it a bit more clear. The rule doesn't allow the receiving model to dodge AND dervish pass, that's what it means. Additionally the dervish pass is not a teamwork action, which THEN means that Bonesaw is allowed to dodge, because the rule does not specify HIM not being allowed to do the teamwork action. I kinda hope this does clear a bit of the confusion.

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Here is the official answer.

The rule prevents the individual (receiving) model from making a teamwork action, not the whole team. As such, the model that Bonesaw kicks to cannot use a teamwork action if they wish to use football dervish, but Bonesaw himself can.

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I thought it went like this. Player A passes to bonesaw, 4in dodge for bonesaw. Bonesaw activates and passes to player A, Dervish pass. Bonesaw receives the pass back, 4in dodge. So Bonesaw gets 8 inches of dodges but only 4 is during his activation. Am I wrong?

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Well I am wrong. The rules forum says 

A is a model with Football Dervish, B is another model friendly to A, assuming success on all passes.

  1. A passes the ball to B, generating 1MP.
  2. A spends 1MP to Give'n'Go 4".
  3. B spends 1MP to use Football Dervish to pass the ball back to A, generating 1MP.
  4. A spends 1MP to Pass'n'Move another 4"  “

 

so, Bonesaw can dodge 8in during activation and 4 before he activates. For 12 total inches of dodges?

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Actual he can football dervish more than once. So theoretically

Dodge 4" before activation

Dodge 8" off kick 1

Dodge 8" off kick 2

Dodge 8" off kick 3

Walk 6"

Shoot 8"

So his goal threat is 42"

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53 minutes ago, Mattyg2787 said:

Actual he can football dervish more than once. So theoretically

Dodge 4" before activation

Dodge 8" off kick 1

Dodge 8" off kick 2

Dodge 8" off kick 3

Walk 6"

Shoot 8"

So his goal threat is 42"

Sure, but this will require meticulous planning and positioning of your players, and hoping that all the (mostly) 2/6" die rolls get successes. 

If it works, it feels better than a Superior Strategy Flint goal run, but it's WAY less reliable. To make it more believable, I'd go for the 8" from the Dervish pass, charge into the enemy for 8" and proc Unexpected Arrival to push them away and then your last influence for an 8" shot on goal. 24" is nothing to scoff at.

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12 hours ago, Nykolae said:

Sure, but this will require meticulous planning and positioning of your players, and hoping that all the (mostly) 2/6" die rolls get successes. 

If it works, it feels better than a Superior Strategy Flint goal run, but it's WAY less reliable. To make it more believable, I'd go for the 8" from the Dervish pass, charge into the enemy for 8" and proc Unexpected Arrival to push them away and then your last influence for an 8" shot on goal. 24" is nothing to scoff at.

For sure. Hence the theoretically part. 

 

Even having him go last, he sensibly can dodge 12", sprint 8, meditate and shoot for an effective 6 dice kick.

I've succeeded in single dice goal runs thanks to meditation. (2 intervening models, bonus time back to 2, get the reroll)

 

Honestly, the worst part of his card is the def trait. If sfg got rid of that completely and just made him 5/0 slippery he would be amazing. Not op. Not sinking 12 points a game. But he would see a lot more play. 

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2 hours ago, Mattyg2787 said:

For sure. Hence the theoretically part. 

 

Even having him go last, he sensibly can dodge 12", sprint 8, meditate and shoot for an effective 6 dice kick.

I've succeeded in single dice goal runs thanks to meditation. (2 intervening models, bonus time back to 2, get the reroll)

 

Honestly, the worst part of his card is the def trait. If sfg got rid of that completely and just made him 5/0 slippery he would be amazing. Not op. Not sinking 12 points a game. But he would see a lot more play. 

This. Meditation is such a strong rule trat gives him a very unique feeling, but is hardly mentioned above. He can have a 4dice goal shot from any position, regardless crowding outs etc. With def5 he would be really good. It is resource intensive for sure, but hey, he has a good shot at shooting screamers ;-)

My main problem with him is his heroic - dead rules are just annoying baggage in general...

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So I had a game once where we played alt deployment. Fish kicked off and Shark came down, stole the ball, used his legendary, gut n string Bonesaw, scored, and maybe something else I don't remember. Anyway Bonesaw ended up with a 0/0 movement. I had a bunch of momentum and used football dervish three times to  go all the way down field and score on last activation. It was fantastic and kept my first round goal with Bonesaw streak alive.

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Any video footage of someone using him this way out there? I would love to see it in action, since this has been a confusing part of his game, and  has made me shy away from using him.

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Bonesaw got me two goals in my win against Corsair Fight Fish this past Saturday. 

Dervish is excellent, and coupled with Unexpected Arrival set me up absolutely sublimely for the first goal. 

Slightly off topic, but the second goal was something I'd wanted to do since first picking up Morts back in 2016. I'd conceded, and the ball landed just near Dirge after the scatter. He snapped it, sprinted 10" towards Bonesaw at the Fish goal, and unsnapped. Fish had no one near enough to recover, next activation I picked it up and got the tap in. 

OK while I'm on a roll (still off topic, sorry) - we are now at 10-10. It's getting a bit heavy up near my goal. Obulous is blind. This is baaaad. I messed up my order, and should have had Graves pass to obs but I didn't. Obs needs that ball to have a crack at a goal, but more crucially needs the 4" dodge. Oh yes, Where'd They Go! And Puppet Master! So Obs activates and dodges 2", Graves passes to Obs for a 4" dodge, he sprints 4"(!) and gets to just within 4" of the Fish goal. Blind. No Kick dice. Bonus time for 1. Confidence... It's a 3. PHEWWWW. 14-10. 

It was an interesting game, and my first with Morts since losing at V16. I was fully prepared to lose Cosset, but my mate rolled badly on something, and she was left untouched which utterly threw out my entire plan for the 3rd turn :rolleyes:

Kraken scored, which was great. I was very happy for him. 

 

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4 hours ago, Lee said:

OK while I'm on a roll (still off topic, sorry) - we are now at 10-10. It's getting a bit heavy up near my goal. Obulous is blind. This is baaaad. I messed up my order, and should have had Graves pass to obs but I didn't. Obs needs that ball to have a crack at a goal, but more crucially needs the 4" dodge. Oh yes, Where'd They Go! And Puppet Master! So Obs activates and dodges 2", Graves passes to Obs for a 4" dodge, he sprints 4"(!) and gets to just within 4" of the Fish goal. Blind. No Kick dice. Bonus time for 1. Confidence... It's a 3. PHEWWWW. 14-10.

 

Obulus has made his way onto 'the list' following that goal.   :angry: :lol:

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8 hours ago, Lee said:

OK while I'm on a roll (still off topic, sorry) - we are now at 10-10. It's getting a bit heavy up near my goal. Obulous is blind. This is baaaad. I messed up my order, and should have had Graves pass to obs but I didn't. Obs needs that ball to have a crack at a goal, but more crucially needs the 4" dodge. Oh yes, Where'd They Go! And Puppet Master! So Obs activates and dodges 2", Graves passes to Obs for a 4" dodge, he sprints 4"(!) and gets to just within 4" of the Fish goal. Blind. No Kick dice. Bonus time for 1. Confidence... It's a 3. PHEWWWW. 14-10. 

Modifiers cannot reduce the total dice-pool to less than one [D6]. - RB, p. 25  So it's at least 1 die for shot (2 with Bonus Time!).

Target friendly model can reroll one or more dice during its next Attack or Character Play during its activation. - Confidence. It has no effect on shots. Sadly.

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That seems much more sensible. Thanks for clarifying.

One great thing about GB is that usually, if you want to do something, you can do it!

I suppose in this instance, two wrongs did make a right. Sort of.

18 hours ago, chis said:

 

Obulus has made his way onto 'the list' following that goal.   :angry: :lol:

I seem to be a a bit stuffy with incredibly unlikely runs at goal! 

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