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PVC Fishers and Butchers

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I'm surprised to see no discussions of the upcoming PVC Butchers and Fishermen, especially since we're only hours away from it launching on Indiegogo.

I'm hoping I can pick up the Fishermen, as I've been eyeing them for a while. Although I wish they'd retained the old Salt sculpt. I rather liked him sitting up on his haunches, looking around, going "Ball? Ball?" #oldsalt #ottergoal

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I will never understand why info such as that is ONLY on Facebook and not on this blog. It is not even on the Guildball twitter. Why inform only part of your clientele when you have an information platform that your customers know and that you control.

Should it be on facebook, twitter AND the blog? Sure, but not on only one and that one being facebook.

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15 minutes ago, Jotnebane said:

There is an announcement on the forum about the indiegogo so I guess it’s. possibly er here as well. 

I put that up when I learned the info from seeing that Facebook link. I do what I can to keep you all informed ;)

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28 minutes ago, Mako said:

retail price estimate of $120

So this matches up with what people are seeing with the Ratcatchers pre-orders, and the new normal seems to be $60 full retail.

A 20% increase from the Farmers and Blacksmiths boxes.

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Even at $60, that's a more than reasonable intro price for a game/faction/team.  It's still $15 cheaper than the same boxes in metal, for example, and includes the goals, terrain, and presumably cardboard tokens like the Farmers/Blacksmiths do.

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The fact that the earliest estimates for shipping this out is November is disappointing. Personally that makes it really easy to pass on this deal. In general its disappointing to see how slow Guildball is to allow things open for release. Farmers came out in August and they still aren't "officially" released. Which means that to an average person they aren't able to get it.

I'd really appreciate a breakdown of a timeline on why it would take so long to get something like this done. More transparency on this part of the company would be really nice.

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Quick question: the campaign video says you get cardboard tokens with the Indiegogo teams. Does Steamforged plan to package it all up in one of the big cardboard boxes too (as with farmers/blacksmiths)?

Quick suggestion: what if they made a deal where anyone pledging on Indiegogo could add in (as an optional purchase) a metal kickstarter-edition Shark or Ox, or limited-edition Boiler? Might draw in a few extra backers ... after all, if you're tempted by alternative sculpts (the main attraction of these teams for me) it would be great to get any other alternatives you're missing!

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7 hours ago, Mr.G said:

I'd really appreciate a breakdown of a timeline on why it would take so long to get something like this done. More transparency on this part of the company would be really nice.

I think the answer (roughly speaking) is that if the Indiegogo campaign funds in February, you then hit Chinese New Year in mid-February, slowing down production. Things don't get going maybe until about March. It takes a few months to do the machine tooling to set up the moulds for plastic, and to produce all the minis. Then it takes a month or so to ship them back from China. Then you need another month to send to distributors, and time to get from the distributors to the customers. By this point you're reaching November if all goes to plan.

For the official comment, see Mat Hart's speech at SteamCon UK last year, at 46 minutes 20 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_p1gRnkUDg

Hopefully there'll be a comment on the £10 increase in price for the ratcatchers, or maybe a podcaster can ask them next time.

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7 hours ago, Mr.G said:

The fact that the earliest estimates for shipping this out is November is disappointing. Personally that makes it really easy to pass on this deal. In general its disappointing to see how slow Guildball is to allow things open for release. Farmers came out in August and they still aren't "officially" released. Which means that to an average person they aren't able to get it.

 

I'd really appreciate a breakdown of a timeline on why it would take so long to get something like this done. More transparency on this part of the company would be really nice.

The Farmers 1 that was at GenCon have been officially out for months now. Farmers 2 was early released at Steamcon and that comes out this week. 

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7 hours ago, ADG said:

I think the answer (roughly speaking) is that if the Indiegogo campaign funds in February, you then hit Chinese New Year in mid-February, slowing down production. Things don't get going maybe until about March. It takes a few months to do the machine tooling to set up the moulds for plastic, and to produce all the minis. Then it takes a month or so to ship them back from China. Then you need another month to send to distributors, and time to get from the distributors to the customers. By this point you're reaching November if all goes to plan.

For the official comment, see Mat Hart's speech at SteamCon UK last year, at 46 minutes 20 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_p1gRnkUDg

Hopefully there'll be a comment on the £10 increase in price for the ratcatchers, or maybe a podcaster can ask them next time.

I appreciate this response. I must have missed this somewhere. I still would like a more official one than this, but considering the relatively low amount of models it seems like an exceptionally long time for this to come to fruition. Considering that all that seems to actually have to happen is to print new cards and produce the models as opposed to design, playtest, update, etc...

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As far as the actual release dates on the Farmers go, the length of time between Steamcon (the prerelease for the second box of models) and the full release was originally only about five weeks for US players; it got delayed two weeks, but still, that doesn't strike me as too bad?  I'm used to Privateer Press and Games Workshop teasing things a few months sometimes before they come out, so it doesn't seem out of the ordinary in my mind.  The Blacksmiths also seem like they were pretty quick to me- a late November release for box #1 and a February release for box #2 is actually faster than the Farmers came out.

I do appreciate the SFG has tried to level the playing field by not allowing models that aren't available for general purchase to be legal for events unless they're for sale at the event- it helps keep things even for those (like you and I) who can't make it to Steamcon to pick up releases early.

Unfortunately for SFG, they're in a little bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario- if they publish a release timeline and people are unhappy with it or, God forbid, something throws it off schedule, people lose their minds at them.  On the other hand, not knowing what the timeline IS exactly makes other people frustrated.  The one thing I say with some confidence is that I don't think they're doing anything out of malice or lack of concern for their players- as a general rule, I've found them to be very approachable and invested in keeping people happy.

November's a while to wait, but actually shorter than a lot of Kickstarters I've backed.  I can deal- I've got my other guilds to play with in the meantime!

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Poorly timed all around at least from my perspective, those who follow SFG news closely knew it was even going to be crowdfunded for what 2 days? Thats not a great time period to find 200 spare dollars. Right in the same time frame as the Godtear early access which people aren't sure of price but speculation has also been around 200ish. Right before tax season in the states where we all think we've become momentarily rich with our refunds, and right after tuition and books wrecks us college students. Lol not trying to sound like I'm complaining but I think waiting 2-3 weeks on at least one of the projects would help numbers jump a bit faster, and advertising the crowdfunding a little more in advance would have made a bigger splash

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17 hours ago, Fish-in-a-Beer said:

So I think you're right that it's unfair to expect people to go to Steamcon or shut up, as you say, but I also think you're being a little unfair in assuming hostility before it happens.  I'm sorry if that's been your experience on the forums to date, but I promise I've encountered far more nice and friendly people on here than I have jerks.  It seems like you have had a bad interaction (or several) with a particular person or two, but don't let that jade you against the whole community!

As far as the actual release dates on the Farmers go, the length of time between Steamcon (the prerelease for the second box of models) and the full release was originally only about five weeks for US players; it got delayed two weeks, but still, that doesn't strike me as too bad?  I'm used to Privateer Press and Games Workshop teasing things a few months sometimes before they come out, so it doesn't seem out of the ordinary in my mind.  The Blacksmiths also seem like they were pretty quick to me- a late November release for box #1 and a February release for box #2 is actually faster than the Farmers came out.

I do appreciate the SFG has tried to level the playing field by not allowing models that aren't available for general purchase to be legal for events unless they're for sale at the event- it helps keep things even for those (like you and I) who can't make it to Steamcon to pick up releases early.

Unfortunately for SFG, they're in a little bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario- if they publish a release timeline and people are unhappy with it or, God forbid, something throws it off schedule, people lose their minds at them.  On the other hand, not knowing what the timeline IS exactly makes other people frustrated.  The one thing I say with some confidence is that I don't think they're doing anything out of malice or lack of concern for their players- as a general rule, I've found them to be very approachable and invested in keeping people happy.

November's a while to wait, but actually shorter than a lot of Kickstarters I've backed.  I can deal- I've got my other guilds to play with in the meantime!

Thank you.

I think that in general the full farmers release was extremely botched. Releasing farmers in August and then not fully coming out till late January seems extremely late. I feel that it rubs salt in the wound to give people an extra month and a half is a little lame, but it'd be more tolerable if there wasn't basically half a year wait time for farmers. Blacksmiths are a better release time, not really ideal, but better than farmers. It would be one thing to have farmers come out in august and then have the next box come out for holiday release, but that isnt what happened. This may seem like a tangential thing, but it seems like a theme for Steamforged having such a long time to actually having product be shipped and released. From what I understand they're also having a lot of difficulty fulfilling their dark souls commitments in a timely fashion as well. 

I don't think its fair to compare this crowdfunding campaign to other crowdfunding campaigns. Steamforged is a now established company, The campaign they are releasing is basically a reprinting. It seems absurd that it takes 10 months turnaround time for it. It's possible I'm totally off base, but I've talked with some people in established in minis communities and they agree that the campaign seems long. I'd just like an official explanation behind it. 

As it is now, its easy to pass on this campaign. The long wait time before delivery makes it even easier. 

 

Hah My post got scrubbed and edited to make it seem like this place is a welcoming community. What a joke. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr.G said:

I appreciate you trying to be civil rather than just mock me. Thank you

I think that in general the full farmers release was extremely botched. Releasing farmers in August and then not fully coming out till late January seems extremely late. I feel that it rubs salt in the wound to give people an extra month and a half is a little lame, but it'd be more tolerable if there wasn't basically half a year wait time for farmers. Blacksmiths are a better release time, not really ideal, but better than farmers. It would be one thing to have farmers come out in august and then have the next box come out for holiday release, but that isnt what happened. This may seem like a tangential thing, but it seems like a theme for Steamforged having such a long time to actually having product be shipped and released. From what I understand they're also having a lot of difficulty fulfilling their dark souls commitments in a timely fashion as well. 

I don't think its fair to compare this crowdfunding campaign to other crowdfunding campaigns. Steamforged is a now established company, The campaign they are releasing is basically a reprinting. It seems absurd that it takes 10 months turnaround time for it. It's possible I'm totally off base, but I've talked with some people in established in minis communities and they agree that the campaign seems long. I'd just like an official explanation behind it. 

As it is now, its easy to pass on this campaign. The long wait time before delivery makes it even easier. 

Cheers, mate, no worries!  We're all just folks who love a cool game.  Costs us nothing to be nice. =)

Thanks for being civil yourself, and I hope things turn around on here for you.  Plus, if the Indiegogo succeeds, you can eventually grab the minis on retail once they're released with no wait if you really want to (I only want half the Butchers, so that's my plan for those, for sure).

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What is there to say? I think it is a genuine estimation of the time it will take to set up everything and get it produced. I don't really see a reason for SFG to overestimate the production time, because it will turn people away from the crowdfunding.

With Farmers I had the impression there was some learning money to be paid by the company as it where the first plastic figs they did. 

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14 hours ago, ADG said:

I think the answer (roughly speaking) is that if the Indiegogo campaign funds in February, you then hit Chinese New Year in mid-February, slowing down production. Things don't get going maybe until about March. It takes a few months to do the machine tooling to set up the moulds for plastic, and to produce all the minis. Then it takes a month or so to ship them back from China. Then you need another month to send to distributors, and time to get from the distributors to the customers. By this point you're reaching November if all goes to plan.

For the official comment, see Mat Hart's speech at SteamCon UK last year, at 46 minutes 20 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_p1gRnkUDg

Hopefully there'll be a comment on the £10 increase in price for the ratcatchers, or maybe a podcaster can ask them next time.

Add to that that once the manufacturer gets things set up, they ship proofs, sample models, to SFG, they tell them what needs to be changed, the manufacteurer makes changes, sends them back, etc, etc....

Also, these aren't just reprints. Some are brand new models and while some are the same, the manufacteurer can't use the same molds as they did for teh metals because they won't work with PVC. 

Then once the models are manufacteured, once their shipped out, they have to go through custums, etc to get to each country, get sorted out by teh distributors, etc, etc....

 

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In terms of future legacy pvc teams, what do we think is the will happen if only one team gets funded? 

Obviously if neither gets funded they'll can the idea. Buy if only one gets funded it shows there's a market for some guilds, but not others. Perhaps they'll continue to just run IGGs for the other guilds? 

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I agree with the timing. I'd love to get the Butchers, but just can't swing $100 now. If it was the  summer, or I could buy only half the set (1 box) no problem. Hopefully if it comes close but fails, they'll try again later in the year.

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Having to wait so long for the models is pretty annoying.  It's totally understandable, and I doubt they can do anything to make it go faster, so it becomes a simple "have to deal with it" situation.  I think the price is insanely good.  If I didn't already have both full teams in metal, I would jump on the crowdfunding in a second - I have other guilds to play.  I wouldn't worry too much about not having the money already set aside, though.  It will be going for three weeks, during which time you can hopefully find the funds.  Even if you don't manage that, if the campaign fails, you missed nothing, and if it succeeds you can pick up the plastic models in stores later.  Of course, if it fails by exactly your pledge, then you should be ashamed of yourself for your lack of planning - or be mad at Steamforged for the short notice.  I don't think that will wind up being the case, though.

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So

Very keen on this, seriously trying to find the funds, not a fan of Indiegogo but what can you do....

As to the release date, the core problem is that they are using Indiegogo expressly to be certain that there is enough interest out there to make it financially viable.  So SFG don't have these models crafted and ready to ship, they run the campaign and then make final order commitment.

Then they have to have models made, quality controlled and all the other nit-picky admin.  I think, think the November date is probably conservative but in my experience it is vastly better to estimate a late date and have a simple and unstressful process then to commit to an early date and have to rush, cut corners and push to make it.  This November date is hopefully pretty solid, they may even be able to get it done early.  Far better than angry backers waiting for a late fulfillment on an earlier date like August....

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