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Selfy

Ratcatchers Guild

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On 11/01/2018 at 6:37 PM, Selfy said:

Had anyone noticed that if you google ratcatchers guild you can get a high res image showing the front of Piper the captains card. It also shows that the mascot is a giant rat, graves and bonesaw get a new sculpt, but their cards stay the same. This is all in the ratcatchers launch party pack.

To be honest, I did this immediately after reading this post and ended up spending ages looking at all the Ankh Morpork stamps that came up in the image search. So beautiful!

shs0319a.gif   shs0311a.gif   anim_0304.gif  anim_0307.gifshs0315b.gif

On 12/01/2018 at 10:14 AM, malladin.ben said:

I was quite looking forward to these, but looking at what we can about Piper's card, and the fact that they have Bonesaw and Skulk seems quite footbally makes me think they are going to be very much a footballing team. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's not something that interests me. I'll reserve judgement until I see the full team, but I'm less excited than I was.

Complete opposite for me - more footballing teams is the way I want to see the game go (if I just wanted to hit stuff, I'd have stuck to Blood Bowl). Wasn't interested at all in Ratcatchers, but if they are going to be footbally, and add better strikers to Morts, I will certainly give them another look.

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18 hours ago, S_A_T_S said:

Complete opposite for me - more footballing teams is the way I want to see the game go (if I just wanted to hit stuff, I'd have stuck to Blood Bowl). Wasn't interested at all in Ratcatchers, but if they are going to be footbally, and add better strikers to Morts, I will certainly give them another look.

Each to their own, I suppose, although there's a lot more to this game than just hitting things without worrying about scoring goals, especially when compared to blood bowl of all things. Me, I find sitting there while an opponent works out another shark goal run that I have literally zero interaction with is a very dull way to play the game, but I guess some people enjoy it.

Talking about football as a direction the game could go in worries me. It's a game with several different ways of scoring VPs, the more diversity there is in that, the better the game will be IMO. There should be as much a place in the game for teams that hit things as teams that score goals, and for teams that do other janky things to score VPs (e.g. morticians). There seems to be an opinion that everyone should be aiming for 2-and-2 wins, but to my mind that destroys the diversity of the game. all routes to victory should be equally valid and different factions and team builds should allow you to focus on each strategy - that's a healthy, balanced and diverse game IMO.

That said, I think we're pretty much there at the moment and I'm very happy with the game balance overall. I'm finding 6 takeout wins possible again, for example, and still finding it just as difficult to stop Shark scoring 3. I'm not arguing for more hitting in the game than there already is. I expressed a feeling that the ratcatchers may not suit my tastes, but they may suit others, that's fine. What worries me is when people talk about takeout play like it is a bad thing or something that needs to be reduced or removed from the game. Lets try and add to the variety and range of options in the game, not see them whittled away.

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I'm sure this has been self evident, but it's something I've not been 100% clear on. 

With the introduction of minors, 2 of the major guild players will be eligible to play for them, and, as I understand it, 2 of the minor will be eligible for the major. 

Is this any 2 from the minor, or will it be a specific 2 as it is with the major?

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4 minutes ago, Azreal13 said:

Is this any 2 from the minor, or will it be a specific 2 as it is with the major?

Specific. Ratcatchers provide Spooks with Skulk and Pelage and get to play Bonesaw and vGraves.

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Cool, thanks. That's how I thought it was going to work,  but wasn't 100%. Also didn't know we knew for sure what two it would be (although Skulk was pretty obvious.)

Would have perhaps been nice if all 4 of the non-Captain, non-mascot players had been selectable, but with perhaps 2 out of 10 limit on the roster, but understanding the Union balancing issues the minors have been introduced to solve, I can live with 2. 

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6 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

Each to their own, I suppose, although there's a lot more to this game than just hitting things without worrying about scoring goals, especially when compared to blood bowl of all things. Me, I find sitting there while an opponent works out another shark goal run that I have literally zero interaction with is a very dull way to play the game, but I guess some people enjoy it.

As long as they are talking it out, I find an awesome tricksy goal run entertaining. What I don't like is when the ball gets ignored or killed and the game turns into just another skirmish game, all about two sides battering each other into submission. At least in Blood Bowl, the ONLY way to win is Touchdowns, so just hitting your opponents won't mean you win - it might help, but you have to get the ball and run it into the end zone at some point.

 

6 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

Talking about football as a direction the game could go in worries me. It's a game with several different ways of scoring VPs, the more diversity there is in that, the better the game will be IMO. There should be as much a place in the game for teams that hit things as teams that score goals, and for teams that do other janky things to score VPs (e.g. morticians). There seems to be an opinion that everyone should be aiming for 2-and-2 wins, but to my mind that destroys the diversity of the game. all routes to victory should be equally valid and different factions and team builds should allow you to focus on each strategy - that's a healthy, balanced and diverse game IMO.

Balance is the key, as you say - we have struggled to get to that point since release, as early S2 seemed very TO focused, and then the game swung the other way (at least with Fish and Alchs) in S3. I feel like the majority of the teams at the moment are weighted toward TO's - there are not many teams made to win 3-0, and I'd like to see more football orientated teams introduced.

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9 hours ago, S_A_T_S said:

As long as they are talking it out, I find an awesome tricksy goal run entertaining. What I don't like is when the ball gets ignored or killed and the game turns into just another skirmish game, all about two sides battering each other into submission. At least in Blood Bowl, the ONLY way to win is Touchdowns, so just hitting your opponents won't mean you win - it might help, but you have to get the ball and run it into the end zone at some point.

 

Balance is the key, as you say - we have struggled to get to that point since release, as early S2 seemed very TO focused, and then the game swung the other way (at least with Fish and Alchs) in S3. I feel like the majority of the teams at the moment are weighted toward TO's - there are not many teams made to win 3-0, and I'd like to see more football orientated teams introduced.

Like I said, each to their own. Personally I think GB has enough depth to be a decent skirmish game without the ball, but that's beside the point. I like having and using the ball, I'm just not a massive fan of single activation goal runs that orovide no opportunity to interact. You might as well be playing a solo game vs AI, IMO. But like i said, each fo their own. I'm not trying to say you're wrong in your opinion, just show that there are others out there that are equally valid.

Ball killing strategies only really developed in a big way in S3 in response to shark and Midas. S2 Fillet used to dash all over the place using the ball, but rarely score a goal. Be careful what you wish for. If 3-0 becomes too common you will see more ball killing.

At the moment Fish, Alchemists, Engineers, Blacksmiths and Union can happily win 3-0. They may find 2-2 more common, but 3-0 is certainly within their remit. In contrast I'd say butchers, brewer's, farmers and Union can all win 6-0, sold anything there's an imbalance towards scoring goals.

That said, I'm happy seeing more footballing teams in the game, provided there's also more takeout teams in the game. I just wont be buying them.

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10 hours ago, S_A_T_S said:

I feel like the majority of the teams at the moment are weighted toward TO's - there are not many teams made to win 3-0, and I'd like to see more football orientated teams introduced.

What I love about this game is that the win conditions let You exploit Your enemies weaknesses. Last Tournament my Spooks (Obs, Dirge, Silence, Skulk, Graves1, Mist) faced a TO heavy Fish list (Corsair, Tentacles, Kraken, vSiren, A&G, Hag). I just felt like there is no way I could fight them so went for 3 goals feeding them 1 player at the time as they were unable to kill the ball reliably. It was 12:6 at the end (Mist with 2 goals and 1 from Skulk verse 3 TO - Obulus, Graves, Mist). 

What I mean is - your Guild choice doesn't determine the playstyle.

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23 minutes ago, Selfy said:

Do we actually know that Ratcatchers are going to be football focused? I've not seen anything to suggest that.

Not much. Just looking at what we can see so far - Bonesaw, vGraves and Skulk, none of whom are particular damage dealers (especially if you ignore the vileswarm interaction with Graves). The front of Piper's card, especially, suggests goal-scoring jank. I guess Graves sort of supports the take out game, but I'd much rather have players that scored takeouts 2/3 more easily than gain 2/3 more VPs for them. 

I may be reading too much into it, I merely expressed a bit of disappointment at what has been revealed so far. If they turn out to be different I will happily eat my words (and probably buy them, because they I have a special fondness for ratcatchers from my WFRP days). I should probably shut up about it now. Let's have a look at what some of the other players can do and prove me wrong.

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I think this notion is mostly based on Pipers partly revealed card, and the inclusion of Bonesaw in the roster. Looking at the artwork though I´m inclined to believe that they are gonna be a mixed team, and that´s partly why they´re getting Bonesaw: They need a striker from somewhere else other than Piper, who weirdly seems to be a setup captain and not a solo striker himself. Anyhow, I´m very much looking forward to seeing more! :) I´m particularly interested in Pelage, who, if I understand correctly, is the second player in addition to Skulk who can join the Morticians. Also, creepy sick lady looks interesting!

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The painted sculpts are up on the blog now - 50/50 on my like of the models so far.  Piper, Pelage and Skulk look great, though Scourge, Maisma and Squeek look a bit off (what's going on with Maisma's hands??).  Hopefully we'll see them from some alternate angles at some point.

The ball token makes me think of Eddie Izzard's taxidermist sketch :P

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