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Best and worst pairings Smoke/Midas

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Hi all:)

I've played about 20 games with alchemists

My main is smoke 

I would like to know in which pairings midas is better than smoke

And in particular Thresher, Hammer and Corsair I have many problems against these captains:unsure:

Regards

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Against Corsair and Hammer Calculus is really important. If you can Blind them before they activate they're not that scary any more. I would play Smoke into Corsair as it's insanely difficult to get the ball off Corsair effectively. Hammer and Tresher play the ball game and spread out as much as you can.

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To give you a third different opinion, I'd play Smoke into Corsair and Hammer, and I'd play Midas into Thresher.  Hammer is one of Smoke's best matchups (especially if she receives), and I think you are probably better off with her denial game into Corsair than trying to beat them at football with Midas.  Thresher, on the other hand, I think you want to play that spread out, aggressive football game.  Haven't actually played that matchup yet, but that's how I've beat them with Honour.

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Likewise I'd pretty much always run smoke into hammer. I tend to only run midas into farmers or in the mirror match. Though that is partly a playstyle thing. 

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22 minutes ago, TheCurkov said:

Play Midas into Grace. Play smoke into everything else. 

Even Thresher?

 

Not saying you are wrong (I love Smoke after reading your post - you know which one - and learning how to play with her), I just haven't played against Farmer's at all. In theory, Midas seems like a better option.

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On 1/16/2018 at 2:40 AM, Michał said:

Even Thresher?

 

Not saying you are wrong (I love Smoke after reading your post - you know which one - and learning how to play with her), I just haven't played against Farmer's at all. In theory, Midas seems like a better option.

Alex plays grace on his 10 for farmers. The millstone and peck stuff is pretty mitagatable but the harrow aura and grace combo effectively prevent the condition game from being a thing. I play Midas in this matchup. But if they don’t have grace I don’t think the matchup is that bad. Farmers are clearly favored but they are when you drop Midas too. 

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I felt that playing Midas-Vitriol-Mist was the only way to have a good chance against Tresher (or at least against a good player piloting him).

Of course it's hard to leave Decimate in the bench...

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Masons are so easy to hit I always play Smoke into them. Even when Midas was at his S3 height, Masons I always went Smoke and as far I I remember did not lose a game against them. Hammer hits hard, but burn his mates and he either come in alone and dies or hangs back and doesn't do much. UM protects Smoke and you can weaken and slow them with conditions enough that vKat can go in and take several out in an activation for the win.

Farmers have way too many HP to make Smoke/conditions worth it, plus Grace, Millstone and Peck, so Midas & goals is where I'd go.

I don't have any experience against Corsair (1 game more than a year ago) so I won't comment on that.

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I’ve always played Midas into Masons, Smoke is too scary a drop for me into them. With Honour, they can go with vetHarmony, up defenses against your character plays, then take last activation with her to smelling salts. Hammer’s tough hide makes him hard for me to finish off with Hammer with vetKat, although I’ve been wanting to try oKat into Hammer to try to control him a bit when he does reach my lines. I feel comfortable with Midas into either captain, so I’ve always ran him.

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4 hours ago, tunapoots said:

I’ve always played Midas into Masons, Smoke is too scary a drop for me into them. With Honour, they can go with vetHarmony, up defenses against your character plays, then take last activation with her to smelling salts. Hammer’s tough hide makes him hard for me to finish off with Hammer with vetKat, although I’ve been wanting to try oKat into Hammer to try to control him a bit when he does reach my lines. I feel comfortable with Midas into either captain, so I’ve always ran him.

I've been using Smoke into Masons knowing this could happen. Haven't seen this yet, but I'm actually ok when this is used. The 5inf used to pull of that vHarmony trick means they're playing your game, not their own,  and +1 def means their defences are just average. The only problematic part is the damage dispersing trait which could prevent vKatalyst from using Witness me!.

Against Hammer, I've been able to blind him every turn and it has been enough to slow him down. Basically his team melted around him, and at 8 points Smoke just scored to finish the game.

That said, Midas definitely has game against Masons too.

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The worst pairings for Alchemist's in general are Farmers, Blacksmiths and Corsair Fish. 

I run Midas into the first two (new erata might change that), and smoke for the last. 

Both captains can play well into every other match up, but smoke is the more viable option. 

*edit*

I really like Midas into Shark, but don't get to play that often. 

Midas into the mirror. 

Midas into hunters. 

Midas into Ratcatchers probably 

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For me, Engineers has always been the hardest match up. 
But then again, an Engineers player once asked me how to beat Alchemists, so apparently I don't know a thing...

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The Alchemist pairings as I see them are as follows.


Worst: Farmers with Grace

Grace is essentially the hardest counter to Smoke in the entire game and until they give us a player that can throw both types of AOE it will continue to be this way. She picks up the fire AOE right after the model that placed it activates and then quick foots the most dangerous model on their team. Farmers are the worst due to the constant healing of harrow that can counteract the poison condition. Farmers also have some of the largest HP pools in the game so waiting for them to bleed out to conditions takes the longest. The reason this falls into our worst matchup is that the team is well set up to deal with Katalyst. Counter charge and Millstone's aura means that they can control where Katalyst attacks and end his activation prematurely with well-timed counter-attacks. Furthur controlling Kat is their easy access to knockdowns preventing him from coming into them while on fire. The best thing going for us in this matchup is the fact that they don't control the ball particularly well allowing us to play an all in goals plan. The downside here is our guild is not great at the 3-0 plan.

Pretty Bad: Union with Grace

This is bad for similar reasons. The main thing here is that without counter charge your Midas list has more control over when and where you get them and they don't control kat that well. However, they do kill him very well. 

Skill-based: Alchemists, Brewers, Engineers, Hunters

Obviously, the Alchemist mirror is a straight 50/50. Brewers, Engineers, and Hunters are here because they have the ability to shoot back at you, have control elements, and/or tough hide. Typically the better player wins these games. 

Advantaged: Blacksmiths, Farmers without Grace, Fisherman, Morticians, Union without Grace

Blacksmiths are a guild all about insane turn 1 pressure and the ability to ride a lead all the way to the finish line. Smoke is very good at denying turn 1 pressure this combined with the fact that apprentices have below average health gives Smoke a leg up here. Morticians also struggle into Smoke due to the fact that they have the lowest health pools in the entire game. The fisherman matchup should largely be about how well you can kill the ball vs shark. If they drop corsair into you hide your entire team behind a wall and throw bombs on them till they die. This works because Lure and Drag cannot move models over an obstruction and Corsair is pretty bad without access to lure and drag. Farmers and Union lean on grace really hard to deny your control and if they leave it at home they have the same issues as everyone else.

Heavily advantaged: Butchers, Masons, Ratcatchers

The Alchemist's Guild is an absolute nightmare for Butchers. Filet has very few ways to deal with Compound and Ox should never be able to get to you. Masons have a ton of really interesting ways to counter smoke but all of them look better than they actually are and can be played around fairly easily. Smelling salts only works if you have the last activation then the first activation otherwise smoke just puts the conditions back on or Calculus blinds the model coming into your lines. Lucky can be countered by holding the fire AOE until late. The biggest tool they have is the vet harmony aura that absorbs damage. If they use it to prevent a witness me it can invite disaster. You will need to put pressure on her life total. Ratcatchers will suffer from condition control super hard due to the nature of disease. They can play the ball against you but their ability to get it back from you is severely worse than the Fish.

Like it or not a competitive Alchemist player's mindset needs to be "I am a Smoke main with a pocket Midas for her bad matchups."

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2 hours ago, TheCurkov said:

The Alchemist pairings as I see them are as follows.


Worst: Farmers with Grace

Grace is essentially the hardest counter to Smoke in the entire game and until they give us a player that can throw both types of AOE it will continue to be this way. She picks up the fire AOE right after the model that placed it activates and then quick foots the most dangerous model on their team. Farmers are the worst due to the constant healing of harrow that can counteract the poison condition. Farmers also have some of the largest HP pools in the game so waiting for them to bleed out to conditions takes the longest. The reason this falls into our worst matchup is that the team is well set up to deal with Katalyst. Counter charge and Millstone's aura means that they can control where Katalyst attacks and end his activation prematurely with well-timed counter-attacks. Furthur controlling Kat is their easy access to knockdowns preventing him from coming into them while on fire. The best thing going for us in this matchup is the fact that they don't control the ball particularly well allowing us to play an all in goals plan. The downside here is our guild is not great at the 3-0 plan.

Pretty Bad: Union with Grace

This is bad for similar reasons. The main thing here is that without counter charge your Midas list has more control over when and where you get them and they don't control kat that well. However, they do kill him very well. 

Skill-based: Alchemists, Brewers, Engineers, Hunters

Obviously, the Alchemist mirror is a straight 50/50. Brewers, Engineers, and Hunters are here because they have the ability to shoot back at you, have control elements, and/or tough hide. Typically the better player wins these games. 

Advantaged: Blacksmiths, Farmers without Grace, Fisherman, Morticians, Union without Grace

Blacksmiths are a guild all about insane turn 1 pressure and the ability to ride a lead all the way to the finish line. Smoke is very good at denying turn 1 pressure this combined with the fact that apprentices have below average health gives Smoke a leg up here. Morticians also struggle into Smoke due to the fact that they have the lowest health pools in the entire game. The fisherman matchup should largely be about how well you can kill the ball vs shark. If they drop corsair into you hide your entire team behind a wall and throw bombs on them till they die. This works because Lure and Drag cannot move models over an obstruction and Corsair is pretty bad without access to lure and drag. Farmers and Union lean on grace really hard to deny your control and if they leave it at home they have the same issues as everyone else.

Heavily advantaged: Butchers, Masons, Ratcatchers

Alchemist's is an absolute nightmare for Butchers. Filet has very few ways to deal with Compound and Ox should never be able to get to you. Masons have a ton of really interesting ways to counter smoke but all of them look better than they actually are and can be played around fairly easily. Smelling salts only works if you have the last activation then the first activation otherwise smoke just puts the conditions back on or Calculus blinds the model coming into your lines. Lucky can be countered by holding the fire AOE until late. The biggest tool they have is the vet harmony aura that absorbs damage. If they use it to prevent a witness me it can invite disaster. You will need to put pressure on her life total. Ratcatchers will suffer from condition control super hard due to the nature of disease. They can play the ball against you but their ability to get it back from you is severely worse than the Fish.

Like it or not a competitive Alchemist players mindset need to be "I am a Smoke main with a pocket Midas for her bad matchups."

The Holy Bible of the Alchemists @TheCurkov 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

 

#PrayforSaintCurkov

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