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EpicChris

Granite should have Protective Instinct - Discuss

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I really feel that Fallow is Granite 2.0. If Granite had protective instinct (you have to attack Granite if engaging her) she would actually work as intended. 

Thoughts? Would PI make Granite more popular? 

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It's be pretty great, but as you say it'd feel a bit like Fallow transplanted to Masons. Granite does have different playbook, stats and DAM I suppose (6 TAC with :KD: on 2, compared to Fallows 3 TAC). Sturdy might make a difference there too.

But then again, anything to get her playable right? This would get her on the table, and that low MOV and lack of countercharge would keep her non-auto.

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Right now, she's a condition and damage sponge, not as much a tar pit, which is one reason why fast teams are her weakness. Anything thrown at her, is one less thing thrown at your heavy lifters. So when a fast team doesn't bother with engaging her and thus don't take the bait, they not only stay out of her reach but also don't waste an action/CP doing so. And so she is situational piece.

And as Mason players, we are not fans of situational pieces. 

I also think that SF loves to make the Masons into puzzle pieces. They offer us up a piece that's a tool box, but don't spell out how to use the tools, letting the coaches to figure out what they had planned. It sort of frustrates us coaches since other teams usually have more straightforward designs. 

Then again, from Granite's fluff, I envisioned her to be much more like Hearth from Blacksmiths than what we got. 

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I feel like she needs a speed buff. Fallow has Between a Rock... and is 5/8, Windle is 3/5 like Granite but also a potential extra 5" a turn (not including Get Out!) and both put out a lot more damage/disruption than Granite. Windle's bonus move in entirely in the control of the Farmers player, while Granite's is entirely dependent on the opponent (and a jog, so reduced by burning etc). Granite and Chisel need some serious work done, as they are hugely underpowered compared to similar model in newer guilds.

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8 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

Problem with Granite I have is for a player who is meant to tie up the opponent, she dies super fast. 

3+/2 or Tough Hide then? She'd maybe have to lose some defence tech, as going to 4+/2 when engaged by 2+ enemies could be too strong...

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18 minutes ago, S_A_T_S said:

3+/2 or Tough Hide then? She'd maybe have to lose some defence tech, as going to 4+/2 when engaged by 2+ enemies could be too strong...

I'd pick  3+/2 or Tough Hide over Determination any time. I've actually never seen it triggered, as people just ignore the big woman. 

For me, the main problem lies in her movement speed. She is mainly based around being the model that everybody needs to get through, before they can get to the rest of the team. But ALL teams are fast enough to just circumvent her area of influence, and some just don't even care she's there. 

Just think about it: Alchemists set her on fire, Blacksmiths set her on fire, Butchers just rip through her defenses, Engineers are fast enough to just play around her, Fishermen even more so, Hunters snare her, and Union is either too fast, or snare/burn her. I see potential against Brewers (except against Esters/Stoker), Farmers (except Thresher, who just kills her), the Mason mirror match and the Morticians, but other players still have more potential than her in those match-ups.

She's less broken than Chisel, but needs something to become a viable pick.

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Granite is fine as is. I play her all the time and she really helps set-up playbook wraps with momentous gut and string and knockdowns. She is also really hard to kill and can convert influence into momentum incredibly reliably which is awesome.

I think she will be even better when people stop bringing Harry the Hat. Basically every team instantly putting the burning condition on her from turn 1 is bad. Lucky helps a little here.

The only Mason who needs help is Chisel. Chisel needs a momentous 2 damage playbook result on 2 or 3 hits to be good.

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On 2/4/2018 at 8:11 PM, Mr. Grumble said:

Granite is fine as is. I play her all the time and she really helps set-up playbook wraps with momentous gut and string and knockdowns. She is also really hard to kill and can convert influence into momentum incredibly reliably which is awesome.

I think she will be even better when people stop bringing Harry the Hat. Basically every team instantly putting the burning condition on her from turn 1 is bad. Lucky helps a little here.

The only Mason who needs help is Chisel. Chisel needs a momentous 2 damage playbook result on 2 or 3 hits to be good.

I might be a bit biased here since Granite has never caused me any trouble and anytime i see her she becomes an easy 2VPs for all of my teams (hunters,butchers,smiths)

she wants to do something to throw a wrench in peoples plans but she just gets herself killed and then spends the rest of the game jogging upfield.

i imagine if she's played extremely well she can get something done, maybe the teams i play aren't her best matchup but she never seems to gain anything before just dying.

Chisel needs a bit more than a 2 on 2/3 to make that monster of a playbook work, couldn't say what else as i see her less than Granite.

On 1/29/2018 at 10:53 AM, Nykolae said:

I'd pick  3+/2 or Tough Hide over Determination any time. I've actually never seen it triggered, as people just ignore the big woman. 

 

hell if i saw all 3 i might actually worry about her causing problems but like you say she wants to get stuck-in and gets torn to bits

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-Rework the 3/5 move - Either up it to 4/6, or she needs additional ways to trigger out of action movement - between a rock is not reliable enough. 
-2" melee - she is supposed to be a model that gets stuck in and controls
-2/3 base defensive stats

2 / 3 of these changes would make her a model that could see the 10 for some. 3 / 3 and she would be fighting hard for one of those spots. 

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