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angyi

Hearnes on a part-time leave

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The recent topic about "your favourite 6" started me thinking about the difference of "favourite" and "most used" or "considered the best". Needless to say, I made the mistake of posting the most resourceful team I can imagine, but realised that it's not my fav by any means. Given that lists don't play themselves (with the notable exception of Thresher), metagaming doesn't necessarily result in comfortable teams, and it's quite possible to be more successful with lists that are sub-optimal on paper, but suit you better for some reason.

That said, my least rewarding picks are easily the Hearnes. Of course I do recognize their role, and I almost always include one of them in my 6s, but I don't play them very well and often get disappointed with their performance. So I decided to go completely "hearneless" in January, and see how important they really are to me.

My question: do you have frequently used lists w/o the Hearnes? I know by experience Skatha can do without them, however I can't remeber Theron builds that completely replace Hearne with Seenah as the mandatory 2" melee model, and ticks with a single BotSF.

My Skatha build would look like Skatha, Fahad, Seenah, Minx, Zarola and Egret. With Theron, I'm thinking about Theron, Fahad, Seenah, Minx, Zarola and Jaecar. Same speed, 2 more inf with a need for 2 more inf to consume, less scory, more hitty. Possibly add Chaska or Ulfr somewhere? Do I need Union? Or Snow? (Snow is the Hearne of mascots by the way, I use him excessively and he is a solid underperformer.)

Thanks for your input!

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Before vHearne came out and oHearne got his buff, my go to 6 was Theron, Fahad, Jaecar, Egret, Seenah, and Minx. Egret and Jaecar each take a wing, with Egret trying to stay at least somewhat close to Theron for a potential blessing. Theron stays towards the center of the pitch with Seenah, Fahad, and Minx fanned out behind him threatening Furious charges on anyone that comes in to him and destroying any strikers that have scored a goal and don’t use Knee Slider. 

I haven’t used it in awhile but this list was always a lot of fun if nothing else. I imagine it got at least a little better with Theron’s buff. You aren’t forced to keep Egret next to Theron to use blessing and Theron is a stronger piece to hold done the center. It’s not very good at scoring and plays pretty deep in your own half, so it struggles against teams who can pull you into their half and separate Theron from all of the Furious models. Corsair and Obulus are usually pretty tough match ups. I’ve had decent luck against scoring teams if you are able to get the ball out on a wing and up the pitch with Jaecar and Egret. 

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I pretty play much always play Skatha without a Hearne these days. Skatha, Fahad, Zarola, Ulfr, Minx & Seenah is the most common line up I play with Skathypoos. Theron I pretty much never leave home without oHearne, he's a huge asset to the team.

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11 minutes ago, angyi said:

@ForestRambo Why Ulfr instead of Egret? Also: how would you set up a Theron team w/o Hearne if you absolutely had to?

 

I value where'd you go higher then the base movement Egret provides. There's so much in the game that a dodge can play around, as well as having non-linear goal threats I find important.

100% Seenah. 

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I'm still occaisonally running the 10 INF Hearne1/Seenah combo. Yeah it's stretched SUPER thin, but it incorporates my favourite models and I would say the change Blessing has made it a little easier to push out Snared for Seenah. Given that we are losing A+G (who are still demonstrably better than Seenah) I think we might have to learn this team as we need need punch as much as scoring.

I would say that the GIC make Seenah MUCH better and I really hope they get put into proper play. Because Seenah is...sub-optimal (I mean maybe it's me but I roll 7 dice expecting 4-5 successes...)

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46 minutes ago, angyi said:

@ForestRambo Why Ulfr instead of Egret? Also: how would you set up a Theron team w/o Hearne if you absolutely had to?

 

Because Egret sucks?

 

Not that you asked me, but a Hearne-less Theron list is basically my regular list but running Seenah instead of Hearne. If you already have both I would run;

 

Theron, Fahad, Jaecar, Seenah, Minx, Ulfr (last slot can be whoever you like).

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:D Yeah, probably I'm sticking to Egret because I remade the wind-bent arrow in her hand with shiny new wire, and I'm subconsciously protecting my investment :)

Egret has the advantage of the ranged damage + mobility combo, but sure Ulfr is less linear. Also Egret can be an opportunistic goal threat with just 2 inf allocated (run + kick), which is exactly the cost of flurry, so she can flurry if she doesn't go for a goal. Ulfr, on the other hand, needs 3 inf to be a threat, and if he doesn't get the ball, there is little he can do with his 3 inf. That said, he is not any worse than Egret, will try him too.

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25 minutes ago, angyi said:

:D Yeah, probably I'm sticking to Egret because I remade her wind-bent arrow with shiny new wire, and I'm subconsciously protecting my investment :)

Egret has the advantage of the ranged damage + mobility combo, but Ulfr is a less linear. Also Egret can be an opportunistic goal threat with just 2 inf allocated (run + kick), which is exactly the cost of flurry, so she can flurry if she doesn't go for a goal. Ulfr, on the other hand, needs 3 inf to be a threat, and if he doesn't get the ball, there is little he can do with his 3 inf. That said, he is not any worse than Egret, will try him too.

It's not that Egret sucks. It's that she really sucks.

 

On their own Ulfr threats the goal 1" further than Egret, but at the cost of one more influence.  Also, "Where'd They Go" is immensely useful, especially when compared to Egret's "Swift Strikes." I understand that Egret is suppose to needle down opponents and stay outside of threat ranges with "Back to the Shadows" but her playing cagey and as a striker does not mix at all. She does both rather poorly. Also, why does she apply poison? Bleed is way more thematic and established in the Guild than poison. 

 

Also, Ulfr's "Blood Scent" is kinda ass (but it's an ass I can appreciate). I use Blood Scent as a snap shot threat as opposed to a goal run threat. 

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Egret's Flurry+Poison is satisfying to execute and definitely the play that defines her, but the damage rarely adds up to any pressure over the course of the game, and it's pretty much the only thing she brings to the table. To that end, she can get outclassed by Chaska who can also add some tankiness and disruption to the team. If you're looking for a battery with some utility and opportunistic goal threat, Zarola's midnight offering only costs 2 Influence. For pure goal threat you can take Where'd They Go, even if it does come with an Ulfr.

In a Skatha lineup she's more redundancy for Goal-Threats when you take her with Where'd They Go, which is okay, but then all she becomes is a 6/8 Mov with a 3/8 Kick. Even if it is fit for purpose, isn't great.

I take Egret more games than Ulfr because her Flurry/Poison is still one of the most satisfying abilities that the Hunter's have.

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I disagree all the bad press Egret gets. A last activation flurry can be a massive swing and being able to re-position after it really neat. I love Egret into Morticians who normally bunch up with there low health pools, she can pressure them hard. I have trouble fitting her in my 10 with Theron is mu only problem. obviously I only need Theron, then Fahad is the mascot of choice. Then Minx, then jaecar, then oHearne, then Zarola... and boom. I have no spaces left and I have my favorite team, I'd be tempted to drop minx for Egret v Morts though. 

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2 hours ago, EpicChris said:

What irritates me about Egret is she is now the only human Hunter without Light Footed. Which seems dumb. 

That's a bit weird. 

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See, I don't love Egret, but I also think she's a useful piece. Flurry is really good into teams that like to clump up and Back to the Shadows is extremely powerful. I usually put her off on a flank to pretty much just troll the other team with a few potshots while slipping away. Poison can add that extra bit of damage that can help a Jaecar take out or even sometimes just baits someone into using momentum. She can also occasionally go into melee to hand out a bit of damage and poison. On top of all of this, she's got a 3/8 Kick.

She's a flexible model who rarely has a ton of impact on the game but I've almost never regretted bringing her. Usually I take her if I'm looking for a goal threat who brings more damage (Poison > Ulfr for damage). That way she helps me pick away at the other team and provides an option for a snap back goal at some point.

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19 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

I disagree all the bad press Egret gets... I have trouble fitting her in my 10

If she was worth taking you'd find a way to fit her in your 10. Is Ulfr in your 10? If so why can you fit him in your 10 and not Egret?

 

I give Egret bad press because she doesn't fit her roll. If they would have labled her a midfielder I would probably go easier on her,  but no, she's a striker. A 16" score threat without reliable threat extension is an ass striker (not to be confused with striking an ass). She's also a model that peppers the board with chip damage and poison. These two roles do not mix very well. It's hard to play cagey and on the edge shooting at models and then expect her to be within scoring range next turn. 

 

I say this as a player who loves Ulfr. He's so weird and cumbersome, but he's also my highest scoring model (Skatha may have an edge on him,  not sure). People don't like Ulfr. That's cool,  but he works consistently for me, whereas Egret has never come close. 

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@Anudem As a late activation, Egret can spend 2-3 inf to move 12 inches to get in position for the next turn. That's not bad. Sadly other dedicated strikers can do the same easier and without rolling dice. (If you want to go for back to the shadows, you choose your flurry target with the highest chance to hit, and not with the highest possible impact of the damage+poison pulse.) So you are right, some call it flexibility and some call it a confusion of roles. I call it a confusion of roles, most of the time :( 

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I like Egret. (She should have light footed however xD)

Going in for a goal run while arrowing someone in the process gives her a knee slider-esque ability on demand which is very cool. (Back to the shadows + run the length)

She is a fine model. She does what she is designed to do.

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