Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Pgne

Thoughts of a new guildballer

Recommended Posts

Hi fellow blacksmiths,

I'm new to guildball and chose blacksmiths because of the preassembled plastic kits and the aesthetics of the models/theme. 

Though I am playing kings of war for the past 2 years, had played warmahordes for the past 4 years, and 1 year of Wfb 8th before that.

would like to discuss some points in detail, I posted the same in the blacksmiths Facebook grp as well. Numbered for easy referencing.

1) I'm quite convinced blacksmiths are better at playing ball than fighting. Usually aiming for 3 goals or 2/2.
1a) That's because the masters all don't have much damage, w the exception of burnish captain for a triple aoe, but that's not generating momentum for 4 INf spent.
1b) unassisted the apprentices usually gets momentous 2 results. With tooled up that makes 3 but that's still not super impressive as main damage outputs. That's barring maximised set ups but we don't get that all the time.
1c) Iron might seem the most impressive combatant on paper, but I often find myself spending 1 influence buffing speed n 2 influence charging just to get into combat. So that leaves only 1 more attack for a total of 2.

2) low Def is a big issue against character plays as I find my Def 2 iron blinded by hemlocke the whole game.

3) low overall mobility of blacksmiths also mean we get out maneuvered easily. I lost a game to skatha cos opponent spread out his army, and I reacted the same way and I found my forces out of position to help each other.
3a) because of low mobility I find the scrum usually happening on my half of the pitch, which is very bad when I'm trying to win by scoring. 

4) I know a lot of people had written off anvil n sledge. I had too, but I have recently looked at them again n might consider trying them out again. 
4a) Because of (3a), anvil's while the iron is hot might be valuable for turn 1 n possibly turn 2 to slide my army up 2-4" to hopefully bring the scrum to the enemy's half of the pitch. Singled out seems to be better than tooled up for Dealing damage once I have 2 or more players hitting the same opponent.
4b) sledge might be better for tackling the ball n passing. He gets a free long bomb from anvil. Attacks n tackle on 1. Push enemy out of engage and he can pass the ball 10".

5) I can't seem to make farris work other than to give bolt free character play.

6) I know we're supposed to play bunched up, partially cos of low mobility, and partially for the sentinel, but it also causes a lot of issues of not covering enough of the board, and

7) I find apprentices very squishy, even with sentinel opponent can easily push me out of the sentinel aura. So I usually keep them back, and they could only attack whatever the opponent sends in.

8) people find ferrite awesome as captain but I see it as ferrite needing to be captain to be playable. It's mainly just for the +2inf cap. I often find myself popping the legendary just for herself to get the distance to score. 

I'm by no means a pro so just wanna know if everyone faces similar issues or I'm just playing wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

welcome to the game and welcome to the Blacksmiths. Being a new guild is a blessing and a curse for you I would think. There is no 'must play' tech out there yet and no 'that models trash' talk either so not a lot to bend you to the meta I suppose but you are learning with the rest of us so there isn't a ton of great insight out there just yet either. There are some good threads here and a blog or two out there.

For what its worth let me go through your points.

1) I'm quite convinced blacksmiths are better at playing ball than fighting. Usually aiming for 3 goals or 2/2.

I think that is the consensus amongst us at this point as well. We play in the middle of the road as we can fight and ball but maybe not at the top level in either. 
1a) That's because the masters all don't have much damage, w the exception of burnish captain for a triple aoe, but that's not generating momentum for 4 INf spent.

Our fighting game requires set up or it wont get there often. I think we need to fight to set up the goals and need to ball to set up teh fighting.
1b) unassisted the apprentices usually gets momentous 2 results. With tooled up that makes 3 but that's still not super impressive as main damage outputs. That's barring maximised set ups but we don't get that all the time.

We need set up but try to avoid going too far... Sledge doesn't need a KD target, with Singled Out, and Tutelage and ...
1c) Iron might seem the most impressive combatant on paper, but I often find myself spending 1 influence buffing speed n 2 influence charging just to get into combat. So that leaves only 1 more attack for a total of 2.

He is so mobile but I find its hard to want to charge and impetus in same go... I try to use get over here to get him into a scrum and let him go to work.

2) low Def is a big issue against character plays as I find my Def 2 iron blinded by hemlocke the whole game.

It can be but it something you can work around. Burnish into those matchups can be useful to negate Character Plays. Otherwise If they want to spend Influence (and an activation) to use blind, etc... move your influence somewhere else. I kinda feel like we have a ton of options to get good use out of INF.

3) low overall mobility of blacksmiths also mean we get out maneuvered easily. I lost a game to skatha cos opponent spread out his army, and I reacted the same way and I found my forces out of position to help each other.

Skatha is fast and we aren't the fastest but with Ferrites legendary, Irons mobility, and Alloy Ive not found it to be a liability. Something you need to work though but not necessarily a hindrance. 
3a) because of low mobility I find the scrum usually happening on my half of the pitch, which is very bad when I'm trying to win by scoring. 

I recently posted a picture of an opening that has you threatening the entirety of your opponents side of the pitch. I think like I said above our mobility is what you make of it. I find much of my scrum to be board center or on their side of the pitch. 

4) I know a lot of people had written off anvil n sledge. I had too, but I have recently looked at them again n might consider trying them out again. 
4a) Because of (3a), anvil's while the iron is hot might be valuable for turn 1 n possibly turn 2 to slide my army up 2-4" to hopefully bring the scrum to the enemy's half of the pitch. Singled out seems to be better than tooled up for Dealing damage once I have 2 or more players hitting the same opponent.
4b) sledge might be better for tackling the ball n passing. He gets a free long bomb from anvil. Attacks n tackle on 1. Push enemy out of engage and he can pass the ball 10".

I like em just haven't quite found their place. I think they work in a Burnish list but I haven't found them a home with anyone else just yet. 

5) I can't seem to make farris work other than to give bolt free character play.

ME TOO! I just can't get them to do what I want. 

6) I know we're supposed to play bunched up, partially cos of low mobility, and partially for the sentinel, but it also causes a lot of issues of not covering enough of the board, and

7) I find apprentices very squishy, even with sentinel opponent can easily push me out of the sentinel aura. So I usually keep them back, and they could only attack whatever the opponent sends in.

In response to both of teh above, I find myself happily slamming iron into the fray. I really like having he and Ferrite ruin a models life. Her putting Disarm onto a Tac 6 model and pulling Iron into Crowd means the best result they can get is 1 success. (6-2 diaarm, -1 crowd, and 2 armor) It is ball busting... I can personally attest to ruing Corsair like this. Cinder, Cast, Alloy are squishy but I don't find them much worse that typical wingers and strikers. 

8) people find ferrite awesome as captain but I see it as ferrite needing to be captain to be playable. It's mainly just for the +2inf cap. I often find myself popping the legendary just for herself to get the distance to score. 

I agree and disagree, I love her a captain bc her legendary is so strong but I rarely find myself loading her up unless its a big goal run. Otherwise I use her as a debuffer in the scrum to take away a player or two... Tapper hates Disarm too... and to set up Iron. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that using Ferrite to give Iron a free move, coupled with Use This from Hearth 2” will solve some of the problems you found. In general the masters are setup merchants. Once you’ve hit them with 1-2 setups from a master, they are primed to get whacked by an apprentice. 

Movement wise I’ve not found box2 to be slow. I mean Farris is the fastest model in the game. Most of the auras are 6” so bunching isn’t that bad. I think they benefit from combined strike though so keeping master & apprentice together is pretty important. 

Blacksmiths are hilariously vulnerable to blind. Fortunately hemlocke is being cycled out of all but Union. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take it with a grain of salt as I am very new to guildball (only 7 games, all with blacksmiths)

1) I'm quite convinced blacksmiths are better at playing ball than fighting. Usually aiming for 3 goals or 2/2.

I agree. Only against Fisherman I have done 4-1
1a) That's because the masters all don't have much damage, w the exception ofburnish captain for a triple aoe, but that's not generating momentum for 4 INf spent.

:( I was expecting at least a one captain that coulddo good damage


ld do good dam1b) unassisted the apprentices usually gets momentous 2 results. With tooled up that makes 3 but that's still not super impressive as main damage outputs. That's barring maximisedset ups but we don't get that all the time.

Yes, all need set up from other player. My favourite are a tool up Iron that can hit easily 3 damage in each hit or tool up Cast on a burning target which does 3-4 damage per hit easily. 

1c) Iron might seem the most impressive combatant on paper, but I often find myself spending 1 influence buffing speed n 2 influence charging just to get into combat. So that leaves only 1 more attack for a total of 2.

With Ferrites's dodge I can get him to reach most enemies just walking or with a charge

2) low Def is a big issue against character plays as I find my Def 2 iron blinded by hemlocke the whole game.

:(

3) low overall mobility of blacksmiths also mean we get out maneuvered easily. I lost a game to skatha cos opponent spread out his army, and I reacted the same way and I found my forces out of position to help each other.

I do not agree with this. We have fast players, ferrite, iron, allow, cast, farris, bolt, cinder.
3a) because of low mobility I find the scrum usually happening on my half of the pitch, which is very bad when I'm trying to win by scoring. 

WIth Anvil and Iron you can get your full team 4" forward. Maybe you are playing a bit defensively staying back

4) I know a lot of people had written off anvil n sledge. I had too, but I have recently looked at them again n might consider trying them out again. 
4a) Because of (3a), anvil's while the iron is hot might be valuable for turn 1 n possibly turn 2 to slide my army up 2-4" to hopefully bring the scrum to the enemy's half of the pitch. Singled out seems to be better than tooled up for Dealing damage once I have 2 or more players hitting the same opponent.

Probably even with only one guy hitting the target. THe only thing is that it is not 100% garanteed that you will apply it, tool up requires no rolls.
4b) sledge might be better for tackling the ball n passing. He gets a free long bomb fromanvil. Attacks n tackle on 1. Push enemy out of engage and he can pass the ball 10".

Defenitily the best "tackler" in the game with pile driver

5) I can't seem to make farris work other than to give bolt free character play.

I have not tried her yet, but in theory she can do work with just 1 influence (sprint and 1 attack) leaving more for the greedy players, giving sentinel to the apprentices and blocking LOS

6) I know we're supposed to play bunched up, partially cos of low mobility, and partially for the sentinel, but it also causes a lot of issues of not covering enough of the board, and

Again I do not agree with low mobility. I have found the most success keeping them in pairs

7) I find apprentices very squishy, even with sentinel opponent can easily push me out of the sentinel aura. So I usually keep them back, and they could only attack whatever the opponent sends in.

4/2 + cover is not too bad, but yes they are fragile. Try to present several threats at the same time so they cannot just dedicate their time just killing apprentices and not worrying about giving up goals.

8) people find ferrite awesome as captain but I see it as ferrite needing to be captain to be playable. It's mainly just for the +2inf cap. I often find myself popping the legendary just for herself to get the distance to score. 

 

Agreed, she needs the extra influence for being a good striker, but no other captain needs more than  3 influence to do their job(Burnish perhaps). Her legendary is very good for herself and all the team and very versatile: scoring, out threatening with your damage dealers, making less harsh movement impairment (shark legendary is naaasty)

I'm by no means a pro so just wanna know if everyone faces similar issues or I'm just playing wrong. I was having a lot of trouble against Shark, but after every game, I asked the guy what could I have done better and yesterday I managed to win for first time against him. Chatting after the game is amazing to get good advice from the guy that beat you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hidelfon said:

5) I can't seem to make farris work other than to give bolt free character play.

I have not tried her yet, but in theory she can do work with just 1 influence (sprint and 1 attack) leaving more for the greedy players, giving sentinel to the apprentices and blocking LOS

Farris is the awesome battery, LOS blocker, and sentinel that you want her to be, and so much more. That pesky model with close control, or 2 inch unpredictable that has control of the ball. Looks like it is time to legendary and get the push on 2, cause the ball to scatter and then use the rest of your sprint movement to go get said ball. For one influence you can do all that. Farris and bolt are two of my favorite models because all the jank that can occur.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5. 1. 2018 at 5:50 PM, Hidelfon said:

I'm by no means a pro so just wanna know if everyone faces similar issues or I'm just playing wrong. I was having a lot of trouble against Shark, but after every game, I asked the guy what could I have done better and yesterday I managed to win for first time against him. Chatting after the game is amazing to get good advice from the guy that beat you

Funny, I found Shark to be quite bad versus Blacksmiths. Played 2 or 3 games against it and he just always died or got locked up in a scrum for the entire game. The combo of Averis&Greed/Corsair/Siren/Kraken is the one that is causing me the most troubles. They are easily able to pull me way out of position and just beat me to death :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So today I brought anvil n sledge out. Fought Hunters with theron. Probably a bad drop into them but I really wanted to try. So between snares, forests, and gut n string. Anvil n sledge both had lots of trouble reaching ant opponents at all. While the iron is hot proved decent in a first turn push, and final game trigger,  disengaging ferrite pass to her n snap shot for the win. Since the pair plays similar role with hearth n alloy, I rather have hearth n alloy for the better threat range n mobility. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I play Anvil and Sledge I play hearth and alloy (both defense debuffs) and either ferrite iron or furnace iron/ cinder. If i can grind out a game then I will bring furnace and Iron. If I need a quick goal at the end or start of the game then I would think Ferrite iron/ cinder. This team is so versatile to what you can do that your team composition is so very important to your end game. 3-0 anvil sledge never make the cut, 2-2 farris and bolt never make the cut, hearth and alloy make the cut 95% of the time. Such an interesting concept the blacksmiths are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, THE_DOJO_MIKE said:

When I play Anvil and Sledge I play hearth and alloy (both defense debuffs) and either ferrite iron or furnace iron/ cinder. If i can grind out a game then I will bring furnace and Iron. If I need a quick goal at the end or start of the game then I would think Ferrite iron/ cinder. This team is so versatile to what you can do that your team composition is so very important to your end game. 3-0 anvil sledge never make the cut, 2-2 farris and bolt never make the cut, hearth and alloy make the cut 95% of the time. Such an interesting concept the blacksmiths are.

O don't see this team in my mind.

How do you use this team with Hearth, Alloy, Anvil, Sledge and two flex slots? 

I think its a slow team with Hearth and Anvil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like farris bolt mainly for free shoemarang. And farris with 1 influence can sprint n attack. They require little influence so that i can allocate to others. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Dragoon06 said:

O don't see this team in my mind.

How do you use this team with Hearth, Alloy, Anvil, Sledge and two flex slots? 

I think its a slow team with Hearth and Anvil.

Anvil and Hearth lead the spearhead and using strike while the iron... and an iron 2 inch push to effectively get up the board 10 inches. Alloy can flank to hearths side and ferrite on anvils side

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×