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Ragnar Rok

Thursday night Guild Ball Hunters vs Famers

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Back to Thursday Night Guild Ball (TNGB)

I read a bunch going into the match up, even taunted my opponent how Theron was a murdering SOB against Farmers, but when it came time to choose my 6....

Hunters

Skatha

Snow

Jacear

vHearne

Zarola

Seenah

I don't know why I did this. 

Farmers

Grange

Peck

Windle

Bushel

JackStraw

Harrow

I kicked off w/Seenah, and the match started.  I want to start this by saying, "I hate Windle, no, I LOATHE Windle."  

My opponent did a good job of controlling the ball for the first turn. He got Grange up into Seenah, base to base (and after this game, I now think Seenah is a trap against Farmers). So the lesson I learned with this, her roar is useless on a 2" melee model if he's base to base with her.

My first turn, I moved into position up the flanks to pinch the ball in. Skatha up one flank, Jaecar and vHearne up the other. I left Seenah in the middle to clog it up, knowing that Windle was coming for her. Zarola hung back in the middle of the pitch. The Snowball is becoming second nature for me, which is good. The first game I played with Skatha I didn't understand the play, so avoided it. Now, I love the play, especially w/Snow.

First to go down was Seenah. Grange, Windle combo are just too much for it. I tried to get her out of there, but to no avail. My opponent is very, very good with Windle, and he always hits the Big Breakfast.

0-3

Turn Two

Sigh, more of the same, WIndle big breakfast, JackStraw moving up and down the field with Fart Clouds, and Bushel threatening. Windle ended up taking out Zarola as well. Fair, I don't have much experience w/Zarola, well  not much with Hunters in general. This was my fourth game to be exact. 

0-6

It's getting serious now. I need to generate MoM for vHearne, who actually has the ball on the right flank.  He actually threatens nicely, but I'm out of goal range by 1/2"...poor measuring on my part is costly. I can't score w/vHearne this play.  I have him tee off on Jack Straw, pass over to Jaecar, and pass. On Jaecar's activation I score a nice easy tap in. 

4-6

My opponent basically conceded the goal, he goes for the old man. 

Turn Three

vHearne gets knocked out of the game. I actually never won an initiative roll. I won't blame dice, but the time i really needed to win a roll was this turn. My opponent casually remarks this is a time I could have really used Egret, or Ulfr for more football threats. Windle strikes again

4-9

Ball gets passed up the middle to where Bushel is hanging out, she scores the game winner.  I had Seenah up in her grill, but he had Windle down there too...I roared Windle out, but it didn't matter. Opponent played very, very well (i won't discredit hit play),  dice were good. For me, mistakes were made, and dice didn't help.

4-13

So my third game against my buddy's farmer team. Again, I had a plan going in, and didn't follow it. I wanted a 3-0 game, 2-2 (with Bushel, Peck, or JackStraw being taken out). I am only using Jaecar for goal scoring, and I feel he bring more to the table with back to the shadows. I think I need to play him like i'd play a Man Has No Name, bring  him in from distance, strike, try and kill, dodge out, score. I really think he is the best tool in the drawer. 

No Seenah, sigh, so hard to put her on the shelf. She commands the zone where ever she goes. I think against a team with so much reach, she's a liability, even with the roar. I have had a ton of trouble with Windle, and Grange. How do you take care of Windle? Gut and String? He's so hard to kill. Pitfall him? Run away from him? This farmer team plays right in the middle of the pitch...a tar pit of misery...Dilly, Dilly.

I like Zarola, but she is so squishy. I actually missed Ulfr. The big lug does some cool stuff.  I have recently gotten my hands on Minx...she was sitting at a game store, buried under three blisters collecting dust. I am thinking about putting her in.

I have learned each game I play against hunters. I had Skatha make a beautiful play around WIndle, running around him in a circle, crushing two harvest markers, dodging out and make a gorgeous pass to vHearne. Little things like that are just what you pick up along the way. I never felt like my opponent had an over abundance of the markers down.

My question out there is...if you run a football team against Grange and his team, and you are going for take out...who is your target? 

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I can't imagine a setup where I want to kick off with Seenah. I know this statement isn't super helpful in itself, but IMO it's a wasted move, if not a liability.

For take outs, I'd say Harrow, Tater and Bushel aren't too hard to bring down, but it depends of course on the situation. You sure have the tools to punish any of these 3 if they finish their activation in unfavorable places.

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 Remember with seenah if your engaged with a 2" reach you can roar, spend 1 influence to attack for a push and then charge. 

Or you can use another model to generate the push (vHearne and Chaska do this in my usual line up).

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10 hours ago, Sitaavanu said:

Remember with seenah if your engaged with a 2" reach you can roar, spend 1 influence to attack for a push and then charge. 

And this is also one of the important things where the famous Boar>Seenah comparison fails. If you can't stand out of his 6+2 range, then b2b to Boar is the safest place to stand :)

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Bushel being 5/1 makes her less then a ideal target to try and remove.

Agree on kicking off with Seenah, it's totally not need. With Midnight Offering in the guild as well Skatha speed up shennigans, Seenah doesn't need to kick off. Skatha should be kicking off  to threaten the ball.

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Awesome. I'll keep will take these strategies w/me on Thursday when I play again. I don't want to give up on the Skatha team. I feel like she's a great captain.  I feel like I should give her at least 10 -12 games before I switch to Theron. 

Or is this wrong thinking, and use the captain best for the situation? We have a tourney coming up on the 20th of January.

So no need to kick with Seenah, focus on squishier players. 

Do  you guy use Jaecar as a killer from the edge, moving him in doing damage and moving out again?

19 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

Harrow is hands down the easiest player to kill nearly always in the Farmers line up. Tater is pretty easy to kill, as well as Windle & Millstone.

Must be why he leaves Harrow so far in the back. 

 

19 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

Harrow is hands down the easiest player to kill nearly always in the Farmers line up. Tater is pretty easy to kill, as well as Windle & Millstone.

How do you kill the big dummy? I get him about half way down, and by then he's already done much damage.

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I think Hunters are in the lucky position that generally both captains do just as well as the other. I think Theron has match ups where he is better though and vice versa.

Windle I normally kill with Theron, he wraps really easily for 5 damage so it's pretty trivial. oHearne Singled Out & Skewered is more then enough,.

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Two major points of advice for this match up. Number 1: I always kick off with Skatha, since she's the only model with real ball threat on turn one. Number 2: I also keep her in the center at the beginning of the game so that she has as many options as possible for facilitating your team. This allows you to transition into shooting the bear up the field of a first turn goal isn't an option and gets her into position to influence the game on turn two. Having your captain on the flank the whole game means that you're leaving your most influential player in a position where she cannot consistently play a major role.

For take outs into Farmers, it really depends on the team. If you're playing into Grange, consider Egret, since Grange likes to bunch up and has low defense. In addition, Egret provides another goal threat on the flank.Otherwise, Windle is perfect for Hunters. Most of our highest damage is non-momentous anyway, so we don't lose anything by going into him. The real trouble with him is that if you go into Windle and don't kill him, he's probably going to kill you good unless you can force him to overextend. Typically into Farmers, I try to force them to extend up the pitch early in the game for momentum. Once they leave the safety of their bubble, they're pretty easy to pick off.

My general approach is to constantly threaten the ball, forcing the Farmers to spend resources trying to protect it rather than getting set up for the scrum. This can also force them to choose between maximum fighting efficiency and spreading out to play defense. Spreading out is even more important against Thresher, since you need to force him to go for take outs one at a time as opposed to being able to shift easily from one target to the next.

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I had some good success recently into the same Farmers team you’d faced. I fielded Theron, Fahad, Jaecar, oHearne, Egret, & Minx and won 12-0.

Some things That went well: 

1.  He was setting Windle up for a murder run (tooled up, honest labor) but I was able to affect  the takeout before he activated.  Pinned+Snipe to control him and set Hearne up. Hearne wrapped on 2 of his attacks thanks to the extra dice from Singled Out and <2 def. Jaecar finished him off, getting 4-5 bonus dice on every attack (SO+Ganging Up+<<2def).

2. Windle’s Team was halfway up the pitch turn 2, forcing him to waste the entire turn trying to lumber his way back into range for Stop Slackin

3. Egret is great into Grange Farmers. Keeping damage and poison on people negates harrow’s heal and extends Minx’s charge range.

4. We can actually outpace Farmers in the momentum race. They have a lot of low def players and little to no armor- allowing us playbook wraps. They also have no way I can see to generate momentum outside melee.  By keeping my opponent momentum starved and slowed (snared, forest, G&S), he had no way to get into melee on his activations.  G&S + snared had Grange at 1”/1” movement before he got to activate turn 2.

 

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20 hours ago, Mistergone said:

I had some good success recently into the same Farmers team you’d faced. I fielded Theron, Fahad, Jaecar, oHearne, Egret, & Minx and won 12-0.

Some things That went well: 

1.  He was setting Windle up for a murder run (tooled up, honest labor) but I was able to affect  the takeout before he activated.  Pinned+Snipe to control him and set Hearne up. Hearne wrapped on 2 of his attacks thanks to the extra dice from Singled Out and <2 def. Jaecar finished him off, getting 4-5 bonus dice on every attack (SO+Ganging Up+<<2def).

2. Windle’s Team was halfway up the pitch turn 2, forcing him to waste the entire turn trying to lumber his way back into range for Stop Slackin

3. Egret is great into Grange Farmers. Keeping damage and poison on people negates harrow’s heal and extends Minx’s charge range.

4. We can actually outpace Farmers in the momentum race. They have a lot of low def players and little to no armor- allowing us playbook wraps. They also have no way I can see to generate momentum outside melee.  By keeping my opponent momentum starved and slowed (snared, forest, G&S), he had no way to get into melee on his activations.  G&S + snared had Grange at 1”/1” movement before he got to activate turn 2.

 

That's some good stuff right there. I will more than likely face the same guy tonight...same team. We are practicing for a tourney on Jan 20th. I can see value from Theron and Egret generating MoM while shooting arrows from afar. 

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A good way to tie up Windel is to go after the Harvest markers. If he doesn't get the extra influence and Tac, then he is much easier to control. Sometimes 1 AP on Fahad to sprint over a couple or Markers is better for you than her free charge.  Or just avoiding him, his move is low enough that a trap nearby will completely cripple him. If you get to take him out then he is probably out of the rest of the game.

If Grange is engaging Seenah I find attack and knockdown is his best option. Hopefully then you can charge something else.

There are Farmer counters to those options, but

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I think you may not have to use an influence on Fahad to accomplish that (correct me if I am wrong).

Fahad has a free charge...so if the markers line up...  you could just target, charge in the straight line, eat markers, and then the charge/turn just ends if you never actually make it to your intended target...but mission accompished. Of course that has to be straight line... so if you need to zigzag to eat the intended markers... then yes,  1 influence to sprint through them is good.

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On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 7:00 PM, Malritch said:

I think you may not have to use an influence on Fahad to accomplish that (correct me if I am wrong).

Fahad has a free charge...so if the markers line up...  you could just target, charge in the straight line, eat markers, and then the charge/turn just ends if you never actually make it to your intended target...but mission accompished. Of course that has to be straight line... so if you need to zigzag to eat the intended markers... then yes,  1 influence to sprint through them is good.

You are right, you might be able to do it as part of the free charge, but that's probably going to be a very lucky occurrence to get more than 1 marker, or even the marker you really need to get. So planning on having the influence for the sprint is what I'm most likely to do.  

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