Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
malladin.ben

towards my tournament 10

Recommended Posts

This post is just me trying to get me thoughts clear, thinking through things as I type. I figure it may be of interest to some, so I thought I'd post it. Maybe some of you guys could post how you come up with your tournament rosters, too.

In the past I've always taken single captain teams. When I started playing there wasn't a choice to be made, then you could only bring one. However, even in Season 3, I've not yet felt confident enough with knowing which match ups work best to know who to play into each team. However, I've been playing me current team quite a bit now and I'm pretty well practiced with it so I can start to think about what teams I find difficult and search for other solutions against them.

My team currently is: Ox, Truffles, Boar, Rage, and Meathook with Shank, Boiler and Princess as swap-ins, so has room for two others if needed. This team, so far, has struggled against Fishermen (who it can't catch and beat up quick enough) and Morticians (who can too easily shut down a lot of is power).

I'm thinking that against both these teams Fillet is possibly a better option than Ox, so can I get a 10 that works for both. My old Fillet list that I had success with (and robbed unashamedly from the much-better-than-me Pat Vance) was Fillet, Princess, Meathook, vOx, Harry and vBrisket. I've already got most of that team in my list so far. I can't have Harry and Rage, and think Harry probably, post-nerf, doesn't do enough of what I needed him to do before anyway. Perhaps Boiler or Boar could fill that slot in his place?

Anyway, that leaves me with Ox, Fillet, Truffes, Princess, Boar, Rage, Meathook, vOx, Shank, Boiler and vBrisket. One player too many. Much I have enjoyed Truffles' amazing multi-wrapping super-charges during Ox's legendary turn (7 hits for 11 dmg vs a hooked Flint, for example), I think the pig has to be the one that goes. Much as those charges are great when they happen, you rarely get more than 1 off a game, and if you have Sic 'Em princess is just as good. The pig can also be a big DEF 3/0 liability at times against the teams that just want to momentously dodge around, and whilst I like the passive KD threat the pig provides, the dog's loved creature and high defensive stats are useful in a similar way against many opponents.

Unfortunately, I think it's the pig that has to go (at least for now). Meathook is an obvious auto-include, but after that I don't want to play Fillet without access to Boiler or vOx or Ox without Shank, Boar or Rage. The other contender might be vBrisket, but I think she's such a good swap in when receiving that she's worth ditching the pig for.

So final ten:

Ox, Fillet, Princess, Boar, Boiler, vBrisket, vOx, Meathook, Shank and Rage

Default team is Ox, Princess, Boar, Meathook, Shank and Rage. Shank swaps out for Boiler vs teams that are going to want to fight me back (mirror, Brewers, Rage union). I pick Fillet, Princess, Meathook, vOx, Boiler vs Fish or Morts (and possibly Alchemists) and vBrisket if receiving and Shank if kicking.

Anyway, that's what I want to try out for now.

Cheerio,

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've also played a fair amount of Butchers in the last months. My thought process for getting my current 10:

I have 12 players plus 1 Union, so I have to get rid of 3.
I don't need the dedicated striker Brisket1, Brisket2 does most of what I need in a striker. Brisket1 is the better ball killer (because of charmed male), but Brisket2 has means to disengage. So Brisket1 is gone, 2 more to go.
With mascots I go the totally opposite route from you. I love Truffles for everything. Put 1 INF on it and it always threatens something. Butchers don't have a lot of KD, so everything is welcome. Even with Boiler in my lineup, I prefer Truffles. So Princess is out, 1 more to go.
The last one is not easy. I used to love Ox2 together with Harry. With Harry less useful, Ox2 has also somehow fallen out of my affection.

My usual list for Fillet is Fillet, Truffles, Meathook, Boar, Minx/Boiler, Brisket2, so Ox2 doesn't make it into that list. So Ox2 is the third model to go from my initial 13.

As stated in my Fillet list above, Minx is usually my Union choice. Your recent reports of using Rage have me interested, so I will switch out Minx for Rage for the foreseeable future.

I take Ox into almost everything. I have Fillet for the mirror and against Farmers. Against everything else, I prefer Ox. Against Fish I think that the matchup Fillet against Corsair is really not good for Fillet. Ox against Corsair is good for Ox. Against Shark, Fillet is better, but Ox is OK, much better than Fillet into Corsair. So I will always choose Ox in this matchup.

You don't have Tenderizer in your 10. I think he is an excellent flex pick against some teams, so I want him in my 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You want Tenderiser against fish and Engineers not so much to stop the goals but to stop snapshots. Truffles stops people like Ox being lured into Casket's coffin so is also worth keeping even if the price is a less effective Boiler. Personally I'd ditch V.Ox and Fillet and go without a union choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you don't want Tenderizer against Fish and Engineers. They are good enough at kicking, dodging and push/dodging you away from the goal to be able to negate Tenderizers strengths.
But where Tenderizer shines is against Teams that want to play a 4/1 or 2/2 but are not the most amazing scorers/dodgers, because for these that 1 goal becomes much harder to get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mootaz said:

As stated in my Fillet list above, Minx is usually my Union choice. Your recent reports of using Rage have me interested, so I will switch out Minx for Rage for the foreseeable future.

Bloody hell, how did some casual mid-table part-timer like me ever become a trend setter?

As to tenderiser, it's a personal playstyle thing. He just doesn't gel with how I play, so I always end up using him badly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@malladin.ben I got a question for you, why do you pick princess instead of Truffles in your Fillet list ? You don't have Boiler so I don't see why you would use Princess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zorni said:

@malladin.ben I got a question for you, why do you pick princess instead of Truffles in your Fillet list ? You don't have Boiler so I don't see why you would use Princess.

Inf economy (princess doesn't need any, truffles kind of needs one) and speed for getting and killing the ball. Boiler is also a very common swap in for me. Against any team that has the tools to go after Fillet, swift stance is pretty essential. With Harry gone I think he's probably making the team most games.

I can see the argument that vOx needs Harry. I guess I need to experiment more with my fillet list to be sure. My feelings in general are that I'd rather have one 2" melee push merchant than none (maybe I could consider an outfield tenderiser, but I dont think his playbook is any better than Harry's). I'll have to see how it plays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tested in a team tournament this weekend. Nobody likes vetOx but he is kind of a Harry with more HP/survivability but less momentum generation if you want push and KD. Although the get stuck in and the 7 TAC is really the big difference here. Harry needs inf to get works done, vetOx need one inf to charge in the scrum and do his job : Lock and give Gangin Up for Fillet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Zorni said:

I tested in a team tournament this weekend. Nobody likes vetOx but he is kind of a Harry with more HP/survivability but less momentum generation if you want push and KD. Although the get stuck in and the 7 TAC is really the big difference here. Harry needs inf to get works done, vetOx need one inf to charge in the scrum and do his job : Lock and give Gangin Up for Fillet

I like vOx too. The trouble is he's just not as reliable as old Harry. Vs DEF 4/1, old Harry had a 89% chance of getting the double push and a 66% chance of the KD, vOx has 66% and 34% respectively, new Harry has 69% and 31%, so Harry's better for counter attacking than vOx, but less likely to hit the KD. 

Old Harry was really good with Fillet because he did a good number of things Fillet really needed doing: 

  • If there isn't someone set up ready for her to go for, she needs someone who can go first and do that sort of set up work.
  • If someone is going before her they need to be able to do the set up work Fillet needs and reliably generate momentum in the process.
  • Ideally that's someone you can give 4 INF to and they can really put you into a good position when they activate.
  • She needs someone other than herself who can do something to prevent a goal.

For me, Harry would regularly knock down a couple of people, stick a bit of damage on them and push them into additional crowd-outs and then throw out a bonus-timed goad to (hopefully) stop a key player from being able to score.

VOx can do the set up, but does so less reliably without generating momentum and without any great ability to prevent a goal.

The Harry nerf was a massive loss to Fillet. She really needed the momentous pushes, KDs and Goad. He was strong in Alchemists because he brought molotov and the free dodges from the hat. He was strong in engineers for the free dodges. He was strong in union because of his damage results and bloody coin. He wasn't really seen in Brewers because they're sorted for momentous pushes and KDs, and have access to goad. The fact that fillet got hit the hardest from the nerf to him seems terribly unfair to a team that was hardly dominating before the errata.

But, thankfully, we got a buff to Ox and that has given me back some love for butchers. I'm just dreading now that the minor guild will come along and make the team I'm currently playing unplayable again, too. 

Between vet Gutter and the two new shared models (and possible buffs to Shank and/or Tenderiser), we need a furious and/or berserk model to replace Rage/Minx, and a KD/Push merchant, and access to something like Goad, to replace old Harry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have used vOx most successfully as a kind of lockdown/tarpit model (much like Ghast), but only into less beaty teams like Alchemists or Engineers, and sometimes Masons. His job is to get in and gum up the enemy, and waste their resources (including momentum from having to heal lash out). They can't afford to ignore him and take a parting blow, but equally will require some resources to kill and waste the time of 2-3 enemies. By that time he is usually dead but has done his job for me. He generally only gets allocated 2-4 influence total over the course of a whole game for me, allowing me to load up Fillet for the pain train

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×