Jump to content
Craigus2002

Blacksmith basics

Recommended Posts

Played a tournament with blacksmiths over the weekend and just felt like I was never in control of the activation order or positioning. Any tips? Just felt like I was being pushed around and couldn’t generate any momentum.

Should it be masters first to set up then apprentices? Hold back and fire apprentices off to do work? Attacking in pairs?

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shameless plug but this is kinda been my journey using them.

But key things I've learned.

- Don't over-set up. We have a LOT of debuffs from our Masters, but our apprentices don't need that many of them on someone to shine. The more you set-up the more activations you give to your opponent to put pressure/undo some of your work.

- Huddle up. Coming from Hunters I found it a bit off keeping everyone within comfort hug range. But once you get comfortable with the extreme close up play you learn that you do have some breathing space and only need to huddle some of the time. Basically, don't forget Sentinel, for the most part it's the only defensive thing for our "target on the back" apprentices.

-We cater fairly well to a 2-2 style play and we can generally go after them in whatever order we want. Pretty much all our guys are handy on the ball, I mean Furnace is the second person to get the most goals for me (Ferrite is still No.1). Getting it and keeping it are different stories though. And well it's easy to see how well we handle take-outs.

- Love them, but once they leave the nest, it's time to say bye. What I mean is, if Sledge has slung out and done what Sledge does but then you find he is too far away to save, don't. You'll spend too much time trying to dig him out and getting nothing for it. Take it on the chin and begin setting someone else up (for Damage that will be Iron, who don't forget has a MOM 7 as well) to recoup the loss.

- TRY and keep your cards to your chest. Blacksmiths have the problem of having HUGE signals of what you are about to do. "Oh, my guy has weak point, searing strike, singled out and he's knocked down all within Sledge's un-activated threat range" Don't get me wrong, sometimes you put someone in that position and your opponent can't do anything about it, but we can be predictable. Try and set-up a few people (if you are going to Melee win) and/or try and keep premeasuring to a minimum, nothing worse seeing a goal opportunity and you sitting there premeasuring everything out to say to your opponent "don't stop me this will happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the first box reasonably hard to deal with.

We don't a have enough range to tie them up and we can't football better than them (we do good but they are better).

When I was first starting out I actually found forfeiting the first goal (if you are kicking which I found myself ALWAYS doing for some reason :D) can actually help with getting some initial speed as your opponent tends to come to you (which you want if they can run rings round you). As I'll mention more shortly if you are reciving (which is rare-ish for Shark fish but I guess they do like to launch shark the full board and this is how Ferrite get's turn 1 usually as well) pass the ball to the 3 better ball holders in your intial 6.

Another thing easier said than done is don't give up the ball too quickly, I found it to help with our speed (Shark and Co are pacifists so you don't need to heal, so spend that MOM for dodges as you will likely get not much from hitting them) and it gives them something they need to come to you to get. Sure unless you are Iron they will tend to take it and run, but Sledge (tackle on 1 and 2" melee), Iron (sure footed) and Furnace (Tackle on 1 and 2" and on Legendary a 3/3 which is nice) are our best ball holders in the initial line up. If you get rid of the ball you give them no reason to come to you. And if those said ball holders are all within 1" then you have a 2/3 sure foot and a 4/2 2" tackle ball holder (better than nothing)

Ferrite being agressive helps, can't get rid of Hobble and Acrobat helps close gaps. She will shine doing this better as captain but always an option. Going this route you'd better use Furnace as a pull machine as of course he will only have at max 3 INF but thats them 3" closer.

I haven't actually used it more than initial first turn help but Whilst the Iron is Hot can get you through a couple of hurdles. But of course watch as it's 2 INF which is a lot to give to only get restricted movement but maybe use it turn 1 and 2 COULD help but again, haven't tried it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, WhiteYin said:

- Don't over-set up. We have a LOT of debuffs from our Masters, but our apprentices don't need that many of them on someone to shine. The more you set-up the more activations you give to your opponent to put pressure/undo some of your work.

This is great advice. I feel that the apprentices are made for great stuff but your setup should be one activation max. As a rule of thumb I have found it useful to think a blacksmiths team to actually be just three really slow superplayers rather than the usual six. The apprentices want setup and masters provide. Wherever you can break this mold with something unexpected great things will happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the advent of Box2 (which I know many won't have until Feb but...) a lot of these issues are resolved. BS become a bonkers fast team through all sorts of movement shenanigans. So until you have that box you might struggle against the faster teams. But the general points above are right. Close up, use sentinel, consider Furnance as captain into beatdown teams or Ferrite into scoring teams and just spread your influence out so you don't telegraph (unless they can't stop it, then it's 4 into Iron baby - yeah!). 

Post Box2, you'll find you have some of the longest threat ranges in the game...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh aye you have something to look forward to come box 2. But either pay stupid amount of cash (I got REALLY lucky on mine) or wait sadly.

Well thats a bit untrue, if you can paper doll it to try them out that would be ideal. I know my first ever game with smiths was with the paper stand-ups. But in saying that the first box is good enough you can stand to use it and get some good experience coming into the new stuff (cause currently I'm floundering around with the new box but can stand my ground with the old stuff)

Oh and regardless, Alchemists are NOT your friends... they however consider you their "friend" and sadly box 1 has NO tools to handle them well. My experience but sure there will be some agreements here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah sadly I think you need Box2 for Alchemists. Otherwise it's run at them and hope. Ironically I'm not sure Burnish is that useful - I think speed is better in some ways but I haven't had enough practice with the Fast Squad yet.

But for Box 1 goodness, it's a great all-rounder list - use the masters to protect the weaker apprentices and look to play football not bash-ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Burnish REALLY is not all that, certainly not worth the 2 threads closed because of people being toxic (but say no more)

Against Alchemists you'll be hard pressed to get the MOM to fuel it (I never got any MOM when I played against them, period so.... though that was Box 1 only), means he is your captain, and means you need to be tucked in to each other to get it (So BAM AOE heaven which is what kills you against Alchemists)

And they are nippy enough Flame Belch wouldn't get much leverage against them.

Is he good? I used him once as captain (sadly) against Fillet lead Butchers and went as follows (briefly). I took the "Fire team" for a bit of fun (Burnish, Furnace, Hearth, Cast, Cinder and Alloy) against (Fillet, Princess, Boiler, Boar, Shank and oBrisket)

Turn 1 - Ball landed RIGHT next to Alloy to the point he could have snapped it in any other situation) so to stop him capitalising on that I threw out 2 Flame belches (4 INF) to hit boiler (the kicker) and one to screen Fillet and Boar from getting into my team, allowing them to move up reasonably safely (forgot the range on pain circle though and since it doesn't block LOS.... ah well)

Turn 2 - popped his legendary and gave him another 4 INF and this was my big mistake this game. I didn't have any MOM to even get use of the Aura effect and starved my team of that INF (2 INF is a lot actually, i didn't used to think it lol) by this point it was meh. Perhaps I shouldn't have threw it out ONTO FIllet, Shank and Boar (well Boar is easy to hit) than directly infront so guarantee the burning, but overall did nothing.

Rest of the game I didn't have much use for him (gave him litterally no INF) apart from a reduction to get rid of a chunk of bleeding. Ended 12-6 to my loss (killed boar and managed a goal with someone can't mind)

I do believe speed is key against Alchemists, if you touch them we should be able to kill them fairly well and we need the goal threat as well. Katalyist however remains an issue since our killy guys are bundled up nice and neat for him, but sometimes you need to take a hit, perhaps that is where Anvil etc shine?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Filthy Farmers player here:

From what I've seen you guys are fairly tight on INF, I'd try to get the first goal in as soon as possible to get that extra INF for later turns. Obviously this isn't always a good idea or even achieaveable against some teams but should help lighten the load when you can do it.

As others have said, getting activation orders right is important. Does Sledge really need all those extra conditions on his victim, or are you just giving up several activations to allow your opponent to do something else? Similar for Masters being with their Apprentices - they don't always have to help out just their own one, sometimes they can really help out a different one with the abilities they have - or might not even be on the board. Cast doesn't need Burnish to do her thing for example, infact I think Furnace is better for her.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In agreement with Todd, Score goal one as soon as you possibly can, even if your opponent can return fire. We need that thirteenth influence. 

As someone who has the second box I must also echo that the second box fixes a lot of problems. 

The biggest thing I can suggest is to embrace the jank. We have some amazing movement jack and some crushing debuffs. You could describe the blacksmith style as delaying tactics until you hit your last goal. I have never played in. game with them, win or lose, that I have felt helpless in (and I've felt helpless in guild ball a lot having played brewers since release).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, WhiteYin said:

Burnish REALLY is not all that, certainly not worth the 2 threads closed because of people being toxic (but say no more)

Against Alchemists you'll be hard pressed to get the MOM to fuel it (I never got any MOM when I played against them, period so.... though that was Box 1 only), means he is your captain, and means you need to be tucked in to each other to get it (So BAM AOE heaven which is what kills you against Alchemists)

And they are nippy enough Flame Belch wouldn't get much leverage against them.

Is he good? I used him once as captain (sadly) against Fillet lead Butchers and went as follows (briefly). I took the "Fire team" for a bit of fun (Burnish, Furnace, Hearth, Cast, Cinder and Alloy) against (Fillet, Princess, Boiler, Boar, Shank and oBrisket)

Turn 1 - Ball landed RIGHT next to Alloy to the point he could have snapped it in any other situation) so to stop him capitalising on that I threw out 2 Flame belches (4 INF) to hit boiler (the kicker) and one to screen Fillet and Boar from getting into my team, allowing them to move up reasonably safely (forgot the range on pain circle though and since it doesn't block LOS.... ah well)

Turn 2 - popped his legendary and gave him another 4 INF and this was my big mistake this game. I didn't have any MOM to even get use of the Aura effect and starved my team of that INF (2 INF is a lot actually, i didn't used to think it lol) by this point it was meh. Perhaps I shouldn't have threw it out ONTO FIllet, Shank and Boar (well Boar is easy to hit) than directly infront so guarantee the burning, but overall did nothing.

Rest of the game I didn't have much use for him (gave him litterally no INF) apart from a reduction to get rid of a chunk of bleeding. Ended 12-6 to my loss (killed boar and managed a goal with someone can't mind)

I do believe speed is key against Alchemists, if you touch them we should be able to kill them fairly well and we need the goal threat as well. Katalyist however remains an issue since our killy guys are bundled up nice and neat for him, but sometimes you need to take a hit, perhaps that is where Anvil etc shine?

The goal was with Cast from memory - Fillet did what Fillet does as soon as she cleared the Fire. I think you were right to keep the ball away, but Boiler should have been taken out when he was weak, Boar was nullified by Cast (in hindsight, I should have walked away a turn earlier and just taken the hit).

Butchers seem like a tough match up, (admittedly your line-up was somewhat experimental!) - my Fish would definitely struggle against the Fiery Hearth team - lots of burning, lots if 2" melee, just keep the ball away and beat on my squishy guys til you want to score!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ah ha the man himself :D

Thats right it was Cast as Alloy was pre-occupied, but yeah he likely should have been pre-occupied with Boiler than whatever it was he doing, but as with Hunters I keep forgetting Back to the Shadows so he's good for hit and run than hit and stand there to be taken out.

But yeah having fun with list building, I could sit and really think about what I take (and I do to a degree :D) but wheres the fun in that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×