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kegslayer13

what I truly feel Brewers need

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34 minutes ago, Edek said:

Why kick off with Friday and not Tapper? Cinder needs to hit third column to set Tapper on fire with Searing Strike and that's difficult without Instruction. Tapper puts a tremendous amount of pressure when kicking off, especially with Another Round!. And if you're fearing burning on turn one I recommend Lucky. Apart from clearing a condition, Lucky is a solid striker with 18" threat range on his own and a solid beater.

When is Cinder not going to get instruction?  Should be almost the first or second activation.  

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If you're kicking off, most of the times the first activation is collecting the ball, the next would be instruction on Cinder and the third would be Cinder AT BEST. You need 1 to give Tooled Up to Tapper and setup Time's Called, and then you can charge with Tapper if you really want to and the opponent must play around that. And as I say, if you take  Lucky that burn on Tapper might not make a difference anyway. Also if Cinder uses Hot Shot to attack Tapper then you can easily go and kill her later that turn. And against the 6 the Blacksmiths took, you can effectively kill the ball on Friday, Cinder struggles to get the ball off her even with instruction.

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1 hour ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

In light of all this discussion, I present MidwestWargaming's latest batrep, a contribution of @Zarodis and I's.

http://midwestwargaming.com/guildball-batrep-2-blacksmiths-vs-brewers/

For what it's worth, I probably would always take Hooper into that match so would probably have taken him 3rd and leave the choice of Pisspot or Stoker for last pick...

Think I would prefer Stoker in the last slot for extra condition removal and the ability to drop fire in the movement lanes towards goal..

I don't think any of the players included on the field team list need much tweaking though (for all I'd always take a buff) although I think making Hooper a 1/8 kick would be hilarious and in character (no accuracy, just hoofs it as hard as he can)

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. I feel that Hooper is a trap. He requires his heroic, and at 3inf cap, he doesn't want to waste a swing on the KD.  He's setup intensive, and his damage output is easily matched by Stoker or Spigot1 with less work. Literally, 2" melee is all you bring him for. I desperately hope Decimate2 has 2" melee so that I don't ever have to play Hooper again. 

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17 hours ago, Edek said:

If you're kicking off, most of the times the first activation is collecting the ball, the next would be instruction on Cinder and the third would be Cinder AT BEST. You need 1 to give Tooled Up to Tapper and setup Time's Called, and then you can charge with Tapper if you really want to and the opponent must play around that. And as I say, if you take  Lucky that burn on Tapper might not make a difference anyway. Also if Cinder uses Hot Shot to attack Tapper then you can easily go and kill her later that turn. And against the 6 the Blacksmiths took, you can effectively kill the ball on Friday, Cinder struggles to get the ball off her even with instruction.

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier.

I still don't feel like any of that is a good option.  I don't want to put Tapper in early because I don't think it takes much for Blacksmiths to kill him when he's in their scrum with 3-4 activations to go on their part.

Have you played into this matchup? Cinder needs 1 hit on 5-6 dice (depending if she bonus times).  That's a 4 if she's not near Spigot and a 5 if she is.  It's not that far out there.  Needing a 4, with 5 dice, it's 96.87%, a 4 in cover is 93.75%, but you'd still probably bonus time up to 5 dice.  Needing a 5 is 80% on 4 dice, 86.83% on 5 dice and 91.22% on 6.  I wouldn't describe any of that as "effectively killing the ball on Friday".  Without Instruction, I could see it being an option.  With instruction though?  Not hardly.  

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Let me strap on my kevlar. I know this won't be a super popular suggestion.

This post has evolved a little but if you are talking about the Brewers into Smiths match up then how about vSpigot? I know, he isn't stellar. He is pretty meh. And the worst part is you miss out on oSpigot who is a rockstar.

Goad is going to hit the majority of the time and can cripple the best laid plans to score. Ball's Gone is still on 2 hits and is great if Spigot isn't hiding with the ball. Close control to fight Cinder range tackles. He's a 7/10 MOV when he is trying to hide the ball and with his legendary can go up to a 4/1 DEF/ARM. Legendary obviously also works for a goal run. Paint on Your Boots is even fairly helpful when you are killing the ball (Hearth complicates this) since that 8" from board edge position isn't the worst place to hide.

*Finding room for him in the 10 man might not be super easy and I will admit that this is just theorycraft as I haven't personally play vSpigot into Smiths. Losing tooled up is a shot to the nuts. Off the top of my head I'd think something like: Tapper, Scum, Hooper, Mash, vSpigot, Stoker/Lucky.

**I've not yet read the bat rep in case you address vSpigot in it somewhere.

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1 hour ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

Have you played into this matchup? Cinder needs 1 hit on 5-6 dice (depending if she bonus times).  That's a 4 if she's not near Spigot and a 5 if she is.  It's not that far out there.  Needing a 4, with 5 dice, it's 96.87%, a 4 in cover is 93.75%, but you'd still probably bonus time up to 5 dice.  Needing a 5 is 80% on 4 dice, 86.83% on 5 dice and 91.22% on 6.  I wouldn't describe any of that as "effectively killing the ball on Friday".  Without Instruction, I could see it being an option.  With instruction though?  Not hardly.

 

Just to be clear, Friday has 1ARM, so you need 2 hits for the first column. 2 Hits on 5+ (I assume she is within 4" of Spigot if you are trying to kill the ball, either no bonus time or in cover with bonus time) is only 53,9% according to LS math. Investing at least 2 (and that's with Cinder not passing to ball later or sprinting) inf and 2 activations for a coin-flip wheter you get the ball off her is rather risky. And if she fails to get the Tackle then she is just standing there, 6" from Friday and waiting to be TOed. 

 

1 hour ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

still don't feel like any of that is a good option.  I don't want to put Tapper in early because I don't think it takes much for Blacksmiths to kill him when he's in their scrum with 3-4 activations to go on their part.

Well, It's more about creating pressure than going in early. For example you might get a TO on the last model to activate on the first turn. A Tooled Up Tapper is basically guaranteed a TO on an Apprentice. 

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I forgot about the armor, which is a better point.  I still don't think it's worth it.  Cinder's pretty reliable by herself and this is before Alloy or Ferrite get involved.

As far as pressure, I don't feel that Tapper generates any more than Friday, in fact I think he generates less.  Friday's got more threat range, can bring the cat with her and between the two of them, maybe Tapper can get involved too.  Friday's threat range is so much more than Tapper's that I don't think about ever kicking with Tapper first.  Secondly, if they go for the first turn score, I like the option of keeping Tapper back there to annihilate the scorer, or at least know where to put CA so someone else can.

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On 12/6/2017 at 12:13 PM, kegslayer13 said:

All I know is I don't want to live in a world where the stupid church gets the good version of striker Spigot.

This.  So much this.

Also, a momentous inspiration Esters list sounds like a lot of fun.  :)

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I find both Captains pretty good. 

Smashed my mate who was playing Thresher with Esters last week.

I think a few things could help. The GIC that gives us a free heroic being nailed on. Getting rid of the plot card that stops pushes from a charge. 

Stave needs to be 2/3 and would love something like alchemical brew to stand him up for free.

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On 12/6/2017 at 12:13 PM, kegslayer13 said:

All I know is I don't want to live in a world where the stupid church gets the good version of striker Spigot. Really hope he gets his chance to shine in Brewers. 

Maybe, just maybe, sSpigot won't be out until Season 4, and by then oSpigs and vSpigs will have gotten reworked to be a stronger choice between the two?

It's really a sad coincidence that Spigot's narrative is the most compelling of any of the Brewers (possible exception being Tapper).  As such, it makes the most sense for more versions of him to be released, but he's also the most essential player on the team in his original form, so any future iterations are by definition going to struggle.

If vSpigs kept Tooled Up, or if it was moved to another model, we might be talking, though I think Time's Called!  is actually where the money is on oSpigs, and there's no getting around that...maybe swap their Heroic Plays' effects so that oSpigs gets the Def buff for the "brawling" feel and vSpigs gets the speed buff for the "striker" feel?  *shrug*

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