Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Mako

      Tales of Infamy   12/13/2017

      Looking for more Guild Ball content? Just in the last week we've had new episodes of Singled Out, Double Dodge, Strictly the Worst and Don't Touch the Beard, as well as blogs from ForestRambo and MidwestWargaming! Check out Tales of Infamy in the Guild Ball section
Sign in to follow this  
ForestRambo

Let's Chat : Seenah

Recommended Posts

So after speaking to some friends I'm going to be dropping vHearne from my 10. Seenah is coming in, so guys speak to me. When does she shine and do good things for you? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me she fits well with Skatha. She enables the 2-2 game a lot and brings some control in the shape of 2" and KD, and being a bit of a bully with a target on her head to split attention. 

I do not bring her if I want to more specifically enable the 3-0 game, then I find the influence more important and not having to spend attention/snowballs/fast ground for her. At the moment this is Farmers, but I have yet to get a lot of games in to a varied spread of guilds. 

This is all of course very general, but that is how my thoughts go at the moment. 

I do, however, wish that hunters had a 2" model that was not vHearne or brought less inf than normal. (Or that vHearne got a little buff)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep Seenah flanking or near the goal most of the time. Models that are flanking usually do not have the means to deal with the bear, as do Strikers ending their turn near the goal. If you play Bait the Trap, Seenah is pretty good at killing Strikers and Wingers, she just cannot deal with beaters on her own.

Also, she's good at getting people out of a scrum but she lacks ways to dislodge herself. If you get her stuck in the middle, prepare to lose her one way or the other. 

I rarely run her with Theron at the moment. She's too hungry and doesn't add much for that team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Dirial said:

I rarely run her with Theron at the moment. She's too hungry and doesn't add much for that team. 

Agreed. Theron loves his buddy oHearne. And I think it is a pretty steep price for Seenah in that team going down to 10 inf. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Warpstoned said:

Agreed. Theron loves his buddy oHearne. And I think it is a pretty steep price for Seenah in that team going down to 10 inf. 

Especially as she cannot profit from Blessing or the forest and doesn't add to the ball game which Theron needs in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dirial I like the idea for not getting Seenah into a scrum... she just always seems to end up surrounded and my opposition just generating momentum after momentum on her. I suppose if you ran Zarola with her then a Midnight Offering could give her a way out of that.

I still just hate that she brings nothing to the team for influence. I haven't played her in a while... I might have to try some more... but I have found her underwhelming when I did.

@ForestRambo I will be interested to hear your report on how the Seenah experiment works out. I have been trying out some of the line ups that you had suggested for team match ups in another thread... and was having more success. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The times I've played her, and I'm basically a tyro with Hunters, I send her up into the fray, and it forces the opponent to deal with her. Usually, by surrounding her with at least two players.  This then leaves me with open players, just a like a double team in football/basketball, then with a scoring team,( Skatha /Jaecar / Ulfr) this lets them move and  score the ball.  

If you can get an early goal, and get that extra INF, and even that second goal, then she starts to become a real problem. 

Skatha

Fahad

Jaecar

Seenah

Ulfr

VHearne

I like this lineup, I have Minx on the way, and will sub her in, I have also thought about Zarola in there to give her more movement and dropping Ulfr since he really needs more than 2INF each turn. I would drop Jaecar, but he has quickly become my safety blanket.

2 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

So after speaking to some friends I'm going to be dropping vHearne from my 10. Seenah is coming in, so guys speak to me. When does she shine and do good things for you? 

Looking forward to reading the reports on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers for all the feedback guys, definitely plan to get her on the pitch. Alchemists, FIshermen, Blacksmiths & Engineers all seem good places to play her into. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to like Skatha, Fahad, Minx, Seena, Chaska and oHearne.. 

Lost of free furious charges and ways to disengage people from combat..

oHearne is there to provide free Boombox' or Cold Snaps but can be swapped for Jaecar if you can't leave home without him.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ForestRambo ...curious as to how you would look to use her in battle against Alchemists and Fishermen. (I have yet to claim victory over the guys I match up against frequently that run both those guilds.... but they have much more experience and raw talent than I...HA!)

Blacksmiths, at least the first set of 6 that I have matched up against, I can see Seenah causing some havoc there for sure.... and Engineers I've only ever faced once back a few months ago and barely remember them. (My opponent was also brand new to the game and it was actually the first game I ever won at an event... Farmer's release...haven't seen the fella who played them since then)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm currently running brewers in a startup league that ends Dec10th.  I use Seenah is almost all of my games and I'll try to provide some battle reports with her after that.

She doesn't do a lot of damage, she is a disruption tank.  Plant her where your enemy wants to go and say 'none shall pass'.  I also don't look to flank with her (as in the manuver of flanking where you run her up the side and hit someone on the side for surprise/bonus damage I do usually deploy her within 8" of a sideline), I try to use her roar/double push results to threaten to push my opponent off the table.  Locking up at least one if not 2+ models of theirs gives me the field advantage around the football.

I think she pairs better with Skatha.  She doesn't bring influence but she artificially brings 2 influence through Furious.  Theron can range snare targets to buff her damage which is always nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seenah makes me sad. In view of Windle and Farrow, she is clearly weak. I love the bear and she can do fun things. But your opponent can also use her as an easy springboard to control the game and she is a surprisingly easy take out because players get high playbook results and wraps. 

She can be ok. But Minx and co are usually a better investment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I've pretty much given up on the bear altogether, she definitely works much better in a Skatha lineup due to her ability to extend threat and reposition.

In addition to being naturally slow she doesn't have Light Footed to get through Theron's forest. Even if this only matters every 4 games, that's still too many times. On top of that, Theron already has a lot of hungry players.

I think she could pull her weight against teams lacking in Armor, Tough Hides, and with low HP pools. Like Hunters! Or Morticians?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, MechMage said:

Do you find Seenah dislikes armor?  Her playbook is a bit top heavy but high tac and furious dislike high defense far more than high armor.

Honestly I find that Seenah dislikes killing things. I just find armor the more consistent problem. Crowd-Outs are also more common than Gang-Ups as the Hunter's usually want to hit then run. Cover and defensive stance only get better with armor and once her charge is spent she's a measly Tac 7 with 2 attacks to make. All that considered, lowering an enemy's defenses isn't as difficult as increasing a friendly's Tac.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, JacctheInsomniac said:

Honestly I find that Seenah dislikes killing things. I just find armor the more consistent problem. Crowd-Outs are also more common than Gang-Ups as the Hunter's usually want to hit then run. Cover and defensive stance only get better with armor and once her charge is spent she's a measly Tac 7 with 2 attacks to make. All that considered, lowering an enemy's defenses isn't as difficult as increasing a friendly's Tac.

I have found she doesn't much care one way or the other about armor as much as she dislikes ARM 4+. If you can hand out snared and KD to anyone with DEF 3 or lower you are getting that extra die (or 2) back to fight armor and getting your foe down to DEF 2. Throw oHearne in there for a teleport gang up (and reapply whatever you need if it has been cleared) and the bear can snack on a lot of goons.

0/2 INF with limited shenanigans is just a lot to ask of a model though. I think Seenah needs just a scosch of love to be sitting in a pretty spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Malritch said:

she just always seems to end up surrounded and my opposition just generating momentum after momentum on her.

Which is fine, I mean "being surrounded" means there are 2+ opposing models around her. She can provide numbers advantage for Skatha. Despite her 2/1 defensive stats, the bear is reasonably tough, and with 2" reach she is our best tarpit if you ever need one. Her damage output is not stellar, but the opponent can't afford to ignore the occasional mayhem she can perform if you set it up. KD's are handy too. Farming momentum on her... well that's a thing, but hunters aren't great in the momentum race anyways.

I think Seenah is the "take it or leave it" kind. You field her if you need what she brings to the table, and leave her out if you need something else, there and then. Definitely better with Skatha. She is straining your resources for sure, also straining the resources of the opponent for the reasons above. But she surely won't work if you want her to be what she is not :) 

Fun fact: last game she tackled Marbles after the free charge (with push/dodge because of Skatha's legendary), then knocked down Brick (same), then made a bonus timed pass to Skatha who scored a bonus timed snapshot goal. And the best part is that I didn't need red hot dice to perform all this. Of course this is an activation that happens once in every blue moon, but Seenah is still a fun model to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not played many games, value these thoughts accordingly.

Seenha seems well balanced to me. 

If she gets crowded out she will do very little but be a mom farm or turret for the enemy, and that 0/2 will be keenly felt. Silver lining this ties up multiple enemies, but that doesn' tend to be a whole lot of consolation.

If she is allowed to roam free, furious partially makes up the inf deficit, and with the right set up she can (and has for me) one round something like blackheart on full wounds. Good enough for me.

If the opponent exploits her weaknesses and shuts her down they are playing better than you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seenah is a hard model to stop getting a furious charge, since her mix of free 2" push and very low momentous knockdown often means that they need 4 or more models engaging to stop a free charge. She isn't going to always be able to do anything great with that, but I've also found that she isn't that big a momentum battery unless she is very crowded out. Armour and tough hide do mean that you need a large wrap or a non-damaging low wrap to get 2 momentum off 1 influence, as well as probably 2 or 3 crowd outs.

For teams like Shark who thrive off the momentous dodge, yes she is someone that you can get decent momentum from, but even then they are having to focus on her to get more than 1 momentum per hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Appreciate you guys taking the time to respond thank you :D

Skatha, Fahad, Jaecar, Minx, Ulfr & Seenah is the current plan. 

With the last couple of events being played in the last couple of weeks it looks like I'm 99.9% invited to the British Champs Invitational this year, so my heads going down to try and be as ready as I possibly can for it. Appreciate all your comments and I like the idea that Seenah "buys some time" for your team to score goals. In match ups I want to play Skatha - Butchers, Union & The mirror, I think I'll be dropping her into Union & the Mirror. She may find her way into my line up with Theron into Alchs & Engineers but oHearne is really, really solid right now and the 10 influence team doesn't thrill me (though I quite like into Alchs / Engineers as the 2 2" melee is neat) 

Will be playing as many as games as possible between now and February (I played 11 last week!) 

I also think Chaska may have a place against Thresher. His trap could be a big deal post pinned to force Thresher to trigger it outside of millstone aura..

Anyway I'll stop rambling. Thanks again! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Seenah is slightly below where she needs to be but better than people generally think. First off, as one of a whopping two 2" melee models that can make it onto the field for the Hunters, she's important for reach. Having a momentous KD on 2 on a 7 TAC model is also great. And while Seenah's reliable damage is fairly underwhelming, the bear presents a threat that will force your opponent to debate clearing Snare when they might have otherwise let it sit. And because of the roar, Seenah demands the attention of multiple models from your opponent. So Seenah becomes a bit of a drain on your opponents resources by demanding attention, influence, and momentum to keep her under control.

Now of course, Seenah has huge risks. 4/7 MOV is pretty rough and 2+/1 is obviously terrible. Worst of all is the 0 influence generated. This means Seenah isn't an auto-include by any stretch. But the ability to accelerate your win condition with Bear Hug, the influence efficiency you get from Furious, the damage potential, and even control options Seenah provides make her a definite include in the tournament 10.

I actually flex Seenah back and forth between a playmaking bruiser and a set up piece. It's great of course to have Minx charge someone and then follow up with a monster, world-ending Seenah charge. But having Seenah charge to start the turn to engage a model, knock an important piece down, make sure that you're taking advantage of her influence efficiency is really strong as well. If Seenah charges in to knock a 5+ Def model down and provide a Crowd Out, Skatha can have a pretty scary 6 influence activation as a beater or a much easier goal run. Or she lets Jaecar go in and blow someone up without worrying about being counterattacked into irrelevance.

In my opinion, Seenah is pretty money into Engineers for one. Considering that's a team that is going to out-football you, the KD can disrupt their control game and make models like Velocity and Pin Vice easier to beat up. I'd run her in general into football teams to threaten the 3 point take outs and disrupt their set ups. I'd be much warier about taking her into fighting teams. Butchers in particular seem like a bad match up since Tough Hide isn't a great option against explosive damage and her low defense is just going to let them wrap (also Boar rocks her socks). She can work into Brewers, but you have to be careful and pick your moments because oh boy does she get blown up if she just charges in recklessly.

Seenah smash: Engineers, Shark Fish, Hunters

Seenah smash?: Alchemists, Morticians, Brewers, Farmers, Blacksmiths, Masons

Seenah smashed: Butchers, Union, Corsair Fish (maybe not as much once minor guilds drop)

I'm just getting back into Hunters after a Fishy vacation, so I'll know about more of these match ups in a few weeks :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, as always, these discussions are tremendously helpful. Thank you all for throwing ideas out there for me to test with as I move from totally new player...to mediocrity! :P 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

oHearne is really, really solid right now and the 10 influence team doesn't thrill me

My words. It's practically impossible to field Seenah with oHearne. You'd have to play with 10 inf, which means you'd need two battery players, which means come on. Not that vHearne is a bad model, but oHearne plays much smoother now, even with Skatha :(

Edit: we'll have a small 16 players tournament here on Saturday, I'll try to field the 10 inf setup and report the results, why not. It seems to be terribly tight, but let's see exactly how tight it is :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is your current 10 man list?  Admittedly, I have not played oHearne very much since the errata, but while he is certainly better I find myself playing Vet Hearne way more consistently.  Vet Hearne IMO has simply a better playbook, especially the mom KD/T on two.  Outside of Seenah, Hunter's really lack in the KD game, and loading up Hearne periodically to KD a couple of models is pretty useful.  I think my use of Vet Hearne over oHearne is because of my current Theron lineup of: Theron, Fahad, Chaska, Minx, Vet Hearne, Seenah/Jaecar/Ulfr (That last slot is a doozy to fill, but it as usually been Seenah or Ulfr).  Really it's a Chaska rock N' roll build, with Chaska getting a potential quad boom box while fueling up his own momentum.  The list is strong, it just struggles with scoring.  I'd like to pick your brain a little more regarding your Hunter's line-up, maybe I'll jog over to your main thread after this post.

 

Anyways on topic.  I say all this because I think Vet Hearne is good and depending on your 10 man roster, maybe you can fit Seenah somewhere else.  I really like to use Seenah, especially into non-punch teams like Engineer's and Alchs.  Seenah is also fairly strong into Morts, but if you see Casket keep her in your bag.  He completely neuters the bear (which is saying something because it's a female bear!).  If playing into Morts (or really any team) reveal the bear pick for last, as players will generally tend to hate pick against the bear.  You could try to do some weird psychological game with your opponent knowing this, but really that'd be a waste of time.  A lot of people will say that the bear is a momentum farm, or gets ganged up upon, making her less optimal.  While this may be true, I've never found this a big enough issue to not take the bear.  No, what I think is really the bears biggest weakness is how susceptible to KD she is.  I can usually shake off 2-3 models engaging the bear between her roar and pushes.  What I can't do is control the pitch with her when she is face down in the mud because Buckwheat knocked her off balance.  At def 2, getting knocked down is not optimal.  Factor this in with her relatively low momentum contribution towards the team, standing her up with a momentum is quite costly.  And you're going to need to stand her up, because should you sacrifice movement, she cannot use her free charge.

 

I say this as a player who is not negative about the bear.  I love Seenah.  She's one of my favorite models to use.  Her low two inf cap is easy to justify allocating to, as she (IMO) does a lot with that two influence.  I don't like to use her as a flank.  We already have some of the best flanking models in the game, and if you send her out wide, your opponent can keep their distance from her easily.  I like to bully her up the board in the middle, behind the screen of the front line.  I hate when my Hunter's get engaged, so I threaten the bear behind my juicier targets letting my opponent know that should they commit a model into my side I will answer in kind with a bear to the face (neck, leg, groin, and ass).  I don't like to front line the bear because then she gets overwhelmed and controlled by my opponent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×