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Anvil and Sledge...a disappointment? Any Tips?

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So I've been playing BS for a little while and I've been getting rather disappointed with Anvil/Sledge. I see the MOM 7 and think huzzah! Then I look at Anvil's slow speed, poor playbook (why is Singled Out on 3! That makes it hard to hit!) and Sledge's /3 INF stat. What I find is that Sledge manages mediocre damage and that Iron/Cast always do more. Has anyone got tips for these guys? I love the 2" dodge on Turn 1 and Anvil is pretty tough but Sledge never lives the dream for me (and is so fragile - he dies to a slight breeze). I mean Iron also has a MOM 7 and TAC6...

Help?

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I played against Blacksmith's twice, both times with Smoke. Sledge never reached me before his inevitable death (either conditions or Witness Me!) - it was really sad for Blacksmith's player...

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Based on my limited experience I don't see the value of Anvil and Sledge neither. I had some limited success with Anvil kocking some people down, putting singled out and even using while the Iron is hot from playbook but honestly, he will be the first one to be replaced by another captain when the new models come. 

I find it funny for that such a huge guy has a 1" mellee and gets so easily pushed around the fights... With a 2" mellee I wouldn't complain though :)

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49 minutes ago, Rugi said:

With a 2" mellee I wouldn't complain though

That's what Hearth is made for

Is usually aim for Sledge to not do a lot in the first Round. It's more about for setup for the second. I go for dodging around a lot to get up the field and knock something down with either Hearth, Anvil or Furnace. Best to engage something with one of those or more and then go in with Sledge. That is usually the way I do it and most of the time hardcasting the second Piledriver is fine aswell, as long as you get enough damage in to kill the target.

Sometimes I go for a momentous 7, a KD and a Goal in Round 2 with Sledge. 

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Once the second 6 man box is in hand I cannot think of a reason to play them. The biggest loss when losing them from your 10 is singled out on Anvil. There's a lot of movement jank all through the guild and there are plenty of better masters with sentinel. Losing Anvil is not that big a loss. Without Anvil sledge isn't very useful, and frankly Iron is just a better beater. In a guild that wants to play a 2-2 or 3-0 game there just isn't much use for a pairing that is based entirely around combat. I'd rather have furnace and cast to fight with anyway. They are more versatile and do more consistent damage without having to spike up the playbook.

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Haven't tried the 2nd box yet, so I can't say how Anvil/Sledge compares to them, but Anvil and Sledge have been pretty scary in Pitch Formation, since they always go in front.  With original deployment, I can see them taking a little longer to get up there, but I still think Sledge will be good against a non ranged damage (Smoke, Esters) team.  Anvil always KDs as many people as I give him INF for, and Sledge just finishes them off. 

I have found Iron to be better at doing damage with the 4 INF and a tooled up, but with Sledge and set up from Anvil, I have killed Avarisse, Ox, and a few others in 3 hits (7 mom damage wrap to another pile driver).  Yes, very low probability, but still "living the dream" :)

I think with the new box out, I'd probably only bring them if I need another 2" beater, and keep Sledge behind the wall of the other players to protect him.

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Anvil and Sledge are my boogymen board control. Anvil leads, and Sledge follows 6" behind him because he's super squishy. 

Their set up is obvious but you can use it to force your opponent to spend activations and momentum that they don't want for fear of getting sledged.

You can also use Iron to bump people into melee with Anvil, and if you do get the set up off, 7 Months damage with a wrap for another pile driver is dlrudely funny 

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3 hours ago, Devilsquid said:

Anvil and Sledge are my boogymen board control. Anvil leads, and Sledge follows 6" behind him because he's super squishy. 

Their set up is obvious but you can use it to force your opponent to spend activations and momentum that they don't want for fear of getting sledged.

You can also use Iron to bump people into melee with Anvil, and if you do get the set up off, 7 Months damage with a wrap for another pile driver is dlrudely funny 

"7 Months (of) damage" = that's a lot OF DAMAGE ;)

But yes, getting that wrap to pile drive for 3 straight attacks is... addictive.

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Anvil and Sledge have always done well for me. I personally keep them back and when some one is trying to get in position for a goal run I make them pay. Iron and Ferrite are usually causing trouble on their end of the field and Furnace and Cinder hold the middle. It's worked extremely well for me.

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They are perhaps not the best pair, but currently I've used them FAR more than the new box so I'm currently rating Anvil more than Farris and I'd say Sledge is as good as the other apprentices. Once I've had more experience this could very well change.

Ironically despite saying one is better than the other, I would say Farris could actually help the pair out mainly with Quick Foot (With Hearth would be good as well, but eeh that's already all your Masters picked...) allowing Anvil to get up the board and if you take Granny, it'll allow him some long(er) ranged KD and Singled Out. Especially since Hearth can then give Sledge another +2 net hits so you can more easily get that sweet sweet 7DMG Piledriver chain going (and even potentially from a job depending who you go after). IF you were to go with this would likely need to be Anvil, Hearth, Farris, Sledge, Alloy and Cast going for more of a beater team or set up and rely of Farris and Alloying getting goals to make it a 2-2.

But this is theory craft from someone at his work desk knackered :D

Currently I'm kinda playing around with teams as I need to get the box a good spin but being in a league I'm trying to keep it somewhat solid grounds so "daft" lists like that need to wait until I get free time games in (I know I lose a lot but like to keep them close and put thought into them :D)

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On 12/6/2017 at 12:36 AM, Tiberius said:

Anvil and Sledge have always done well for me. I personally keep them back and when some one is trying to get in position for a goal run I make them pay. Iron and Ferrite are usually causing trouble on their end of the field and Furnace and Cinder hold the middle. It's worked extremely well for me.

I'm giving that set up a run this weekend. 

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I've found them brutal playing against them. Anvil goes first with 2 INF. He hist someone and KD's them, then hits them again for singled out. Then Sledge goes, gets a free piledriver and can usually wrap to his piledriver again, given his target is -1 DEF and he's at +3 TAC. The final attack wraps to 1 or 2 damage. Not many players can take 22/23 damage and survive (26/27 with tooled up). Against higher def models he can pay for piledriver once and hit twice for 14 damage, which kills most high def models.

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Farris, Ferrite and Anvil is a daft combo but giving the lumbering Iron Wall 8/10 MOV for a turn sounds kinda funny. Guess you'd need to treat that team as a football team with a "Brick" helper.

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2 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I've found them brutal playing against them. Anvil goes first with 2 INF. He hist someone and KD's them, then hits them again for singled out. Then Sledge goes, gets a free piledriver and can usually wrap to his piledriver again, given his target is -1 DEF and he's at +3 TAC. The final attack wraps to 1 or 2 damage. Not many players can take 22/23 damage and survive (26/27 with tooled up). Against higher def models he can pay for piledriver once and hit twice for 14 damage, which kills most high def models.

As someone that doesn't play big damage GB, that sounds like fun to me! 

I've seen some comments that Anvil isn't much use. Anvil having a MOM KD on 1 and a generally decent 'early access' playbook as you describe above, seems ok to me! 

 

Edited by Lee

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I can totally see why Anvil and Sledge would be odd duo out. Cast can do around the same dps with tooled up on a burning target. But watching Sledge just bend a soft goal scorer up is... special.

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This has been my feeling too. I have kind of missed them every time they have not been on the field but not because I couldn't do anything they do with other players. In my first game with blacksmiths and first activation with sledge, he just smacked friday off the field with two hits. It was so glorious and somewhat unexpected that we both laughed quite a while.

But that's really it. I think sledge needs anvil and anvil is a bit meh. Sledge is also easy to play out and the inf is wasted. All he really does is create a 9" bubble of "I dare you" and then anvil stands there just for tutelage. Piledriver is cool and can be really good but I feel I can use the inf more efficiently in other places.

*edit

Don't get me wrong, the "I dare you" bubble is sometimes really good too but that's not the point :)

Edited by supertzar

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I played BS box 1 vs farmers box 1 yesterday and anvil and sledge actually made a pretty big contribution just by holding the center of the board and giving the big mean farmers something to attack. I won with 3 goals and a takeout vs the farmers 3 takeouts and a goal. I lost initiative and grange went in and kd'ed 3 models and set up a murder bubble with honest labor, thankfully anvil (who had been taken out previous turn) was able to walk up and strike while the iron... to dodge everyone out of melee with and save me from the scary windle. Longbomb from sledge was also very helpful to scoring my 3rd goal. I am not sure anymore if they are automatically out of my 10.

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Sledge is as good as your opponent let's you set up. Playing mainly Brewers I know the trap of wanting to add all the synergy, but when it takes two plus activations to do your thing your opponent isn't going to allow it. I haven't cut anvil yet as cast can easily replace sledge and having strike while the iron is hot plus battering ram is alot of movement.

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I find Sledge doesn't need THAT much set up, and against Farmers the debuffs Anvil brings alone will be enough for him to get good results. I mean when I went up against Tapper Anvil put singled out and KD on him and Sledge got 7 MOM+Piledriver results all he wanted. Farmers are at the same level (yet I've not done it yet to them :D)

They might not be the shining beacon of the team but I feel they are still viable choices and with the right support (Farris for Anvil, anyone for Sledge really :D) they will do enough. But yeah can be predictable for your opponent when Sledge is sitting there unactivated next to someone who was Anviled a bit earlier.

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I've not played with the second 6 so maybe he gets outshined later, but in the first box I found I was loading up Sledge with 3 every turn. He had help with crowdouts from Anvil and Cinder but was reliably doing 12 damage a turn, ignoring the time he got 3x 7dmg hits+piledriver wrap vs a knocked down and singled out tapper. Tutelage really helped him out.

His final act was a long bomb out to Ferrite for a snapshot win. 

Anvil nearly always gets 2 for a knockdown and then singled out against a target, and it's so reliable (and momentous). I rarely want him to do anything else but 2 momentum and a free tutelage is efficient enough by my book.

I understand the argument that anvil does beating almost as well. He needs more support without piledriver which seemed to put Sledge over the top, but Iron can also fill both roles.

We'll see how my opinion changes with the second box

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